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redwing13

Prospect
15
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
93
Location
Michigan
I was asked if I could sell a Set of cards, and I told the member I couldnt because of the New trader rules of No selling, I have 80 positive feedback at SCF, and 10 at TCC, and working on 4 here! Can I use my Positive feedback from the other sites to over look a sale? Even if I mail first? LMK

New Member, AKA redwing40 at the other site's!
 
Bummer, it should at least be a must send first on sale's! Whats the difference, I have to trust sending a card first, if a long time member wants to buy from a new member, as long as the new member sends first, and ask permission to do it from the Mods, its almost the same thing, but rules are rules I guess, maybe keep it in mind for the future, thanks
 
Sorry, but the answer is no. We do not transfer feedback from other sites to here. You have to earn the trust of our members while you are on this site. We will also not overlook the rule for a quick sale. We have these rules here to protect our members for a reason. Once you reach 20 trades with 20 differnet traders, and maintain the 5.0 rating, you will understand why we do this.

Thanks,
 
Thanks for the info jflan, Me myself don't really like to sell, rather make a trade, I was just asked by a member here, and said no to him because I followed the rules, so I better get to trading , have 16 more trades to hit 20, If I can make a trade, everyone is selling! Lol! Thanks
 
My thoughts exactly. There is NO risk to an existing member if a new member wanted to sell, it should be treated exactly like a trade. New member sends first. Once the existing member is happy with the delivery, a payment is made.

This is a rule that should be reviewed and modified. I have wanted to buy from new members as well and I am more than willing to perform a purchase just like I described.

Bummer, it should at least be a must send first on sale's! Whats the difference, I have to trust sending a card first, if a long time member wants to buy from a new member, as long as the new member sends first, and ask permission to do it from the Mods, its almost the same thing, but rules are rules I guess, maybe keep it in mind for the future, thanks
 
My thoughts exactly. There is NO risk to an existing member if a new member wanted to sell, it should be treated exactly like a trade. New member sends first. Once the existing member is happy with the delivery, a payment is made.

This is a rule that should be reviewed and modified. I have wanted to buy from new members as well and I am more than willing to perform a purchase just like I described.

agreed
 
My thoughts exactly. There is NO risk to an existing member if a new member wanted to sell, it should be treated exactly like a trade. New member sends first. Once the existing member is happy with the delivery, a payment is made.

This is a rule that should be reviewed and modified. I have wanted to buy from new members as well and I am more than willing to perform a purchase just like I described.

Sorry, but that is a rule that will not get changed on my watch. If everyone followed the rules then there would be no problem allowing this but that's not always what ends up happening. Every week I see cases where someone gets ripped off or has problems because they did not wait to send first! Since the Mod team is here to protect it's members that rule is in place, in this case to protect some people from themselves almost as much as potential scammers.

redwing13, I appreciate your post and feedback. I also thank you for following the rules of The Bench even when an established member approached you about selling. Literally thousands of members before you have had to reach 20 Bench points so we all know what it feels like.
 
You can't protect everyone Matt. There is always going to be a way for those who need protection from themselves to get burned eventually.

I won't argue the case, because it is obvious that I am not in a position to determine the outcome (I can't win), but I will add my thoughts. If a person here gets ripped off by not following an established trade procedure, in the case of a new member having to send first, then that person DESERVES to be ripped off. If a new member were able to sell, but needed to follow the MSF rule, then I don't see a need to protect those veteran members who can't follow simple rules. Heck, if I bent the rules and got burned, I certainly wouldn't want anyone to know, let alone actually ask for help from the Mod team. But that just leads into my parting thought:

In a society where nobody feels the need to be responsible for their own actions, you get rules like this one that only seem to be in place for a select few who should know better to begin with.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how someone can get burned when the newbie sends first :confused:

The newb could but heck, they run that risk every time they make a trade until the msf tag is gone.
 
You can't protect everyone Matt. There is always going to be a way for those who need protection from themselves to get burned eventually.

I won't argue the case, because it is obvious that I am not in a position to determine the outcome (I can't win), but I will add my thoughts. If a person here gets ripped off by not following an established trade procedure, in the case of a new member having to send first, then that person DESERVES to be ripped off. If a new member were able to sell, but needed to follow the MSF rule, then I don't see a need to protect those veteran members who can't follow simple rules. Heck, if I bent the rules and got burned, I certainly wouldn't want anyone to know, let alone actually ask for help from the Mod team. But that just leads into my parting thought:

In a society where nobody feels the need to be responsible for their own actions, you get rules like this one that only seem to be in place for a select few who should know better to begin with.

I'm still trying to figure out how someone can get burned when the newbie sends first :confused:

The newb could but heck, they run that risk every time they make a trade until the msf tag is gone.

I think part of the issue is being invested in the trading aspect of this site. If someone is strictly selling, even if sending first on the first 20 deals, then this site can quickly get a reputation of a dumping site where you see a huge number of sale threads without regard to the trading community it is currently. I don't want to make anything easier for the newbies that even has the potential to degrade this site.
 
I don't see the harm in having a trader establish him or herself on the site prior to making sale posts/threads. Perhaps the rule also helps in avoiding having the site full of new account sale spammers with multiple sale threads in each forum. I find this to be a downfall of other trading sites which leads to a higher rate of "scamming". What would happen in the case of two new members deciding to engage in a buy/sell transaction? Things can get messy in a hurry, and I can see how a moderator or manager would like to reduce the potential of messes like that.
 
I appreciate some of the points being made, but a trade is really no different than a sale. You can trade cards for cards or cards for money, same thing.

In your example, if two new members are trading with each other, both can't send first obviously. Both would either need to avoid new traders and only deal with established members until they hit 20 trades or work out a reasonable solution in which both members agreed and were happy with.

What would happen in the case of two new members deciding to engage in a buy/sell transaction?

Let's not forget that even established members have gotten themselves suspended or banned for various reasons. Someone with 20+ trades is not necessarily more trustworthy than someone with less than 20 when a HOFer can go bad w/o warning. I have had three very difficult transactions with HOF members and none with new members. It's a feel good thing when we are blindly sending off funds and merchandise to complete strangers and yes, I'm sure most scammers probably won't put in the time and effort to become established just to scam some people, so I do acknowledge that the odds are more in a traders favor against a scam as the point totals rise.
 
Someone with 20+ trades is not necessarily more trustworthy than someone with less than 20

I have found this to be very true in my short time here. I hope he is happy with his card. Still makes me sick that such an 'esteemed' site with proud and honost members would have HOF members that would flat out lie about the value of a card just to get the better side of a trade.

Anyway, just to chime in as an MSF trader, I would like to be able to make a sale here from time to time and don't mind sending first. I see the sending first rule as sufficient enough to ward away any people with malicious intent. Anyone looking for free money certainly won't land it sending first. And anyone that 'snaps' into being the type of person that would take advantage of peoples' trust isn't going to be stopped by ANY policy concerning what newbs are permitted to do.
 
I think part of the issue is being invested in the trading aspect of this site. If someone is strictly selling, even if sending first on the first 20 deals, then this site can quickly get a reputation of a dumping site where you see a huge number of sale threads without regard to the trading community it is currently. I don't want to make anything easier for the newbies that even has the potential to degrade this site.


James hits a great point here. The Bench is a trading site first and foremost, that's what built the community feel that we have established here, moreso than the other sites in my opinion. A big part of the "No new member selling" rule was to ensure that people came here to trade and participate in the community, not sign up, sell a few cards, and disappear. I think this reputation has been made known in the circle of trading card forums and that is what we want. This rule has been in place for a long time and has served us well, and I don't see it changing anytime soon.
 
Btw, why should a no0b be allowed to buy cards here if he can't sell? Shouldn't it be "trade only", to maximize the protection of established members?

If I were wanting to pick up some easy money and rolled up on a 'send first' forum I might just decide to scam by buying cards and then claiming I never got them, file a paypal claim, and get my money back. Oldest trick in the book, right? Why not protect against that one?

:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Btw, why should a no0b be allowed to buy cards here if he can't sell? Shouldn't it be "trade only", to maximize the protection of established members?

If I were wanting to pick up some easy money and rolled up on a 'send first' forum I might just decide to scam by buying cards and then claiming I never got them, file a paypal claim, and get my money back. Oldest trick in the book, right? Why not protect against that one?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

How in the world could we protect against someone claiming they never got their cards and filing a Paypal claim?? As for new members buying, you are correct they can do that. The "New member selling" rule is there to encourage new members to trade, but also to try and offer protection to our established members.

The bottom line is that we try to make the Bench a safe place to enjoy your hobby. There is no way we can 100% protect against every scammer, but we do what we can. We feel that not allowing new members to sell discourages scammers from signing up and trying to dupe people out of money. If you were a scammer trying to steal people's money, would you sign up at a place that does not allow you to sell until you reach 20 transactions?
 
There is risk involving any sort of Trade or sale.

Our rules have been our rules for quite some time, And since placing those rules into effect, we have had massive declines in trades gone bad.

No Matter where you trade you are gonna have a few bad apples that ruin things, we do our best to keep those numbers down, and feel we have done a great job of doing so.

The Bench seperates itself from other Trading sites with some of the rules we have in place.

mortatort said:
Btw, why should a no0b be allowed to buy cards here if he can't sell? Shouldn't it be "trade only", to maximize the protection of established members?

If I were wanting to pick up some easy money and rolled up on a 'send first' forum I might just decide to scam by buying cards and then claiming I never got them, file a paypal claim, and get my money back. Oldest trick in the book, right? Why not protect against that one?

Anyone can do that on any site, Including ebay. I personally dont sell to noobs for that reason, But it isnt only a noob who can do that, anyone could if they are dishonest. From your quote above we should just not allow anyone to do anything than?

We drew our lines and are sticking to them, Like I said above, the use of these rules have worked for The Bench, very well.
 
I think part of the issue is being invested in the trading aspect of this site. If someone is strictly selling, even if sending first on the first 20 deals, then this site can quickly get a reputation of a dumping site where you see a huge number of sale threads without regard to the trading community it is currently. I don't want to make anything easier for the newbies that even has the potential to degrade this site.

Now that makes sense.
 
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