2021 HOF Class

katester44

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Schilling.....leaves a bad taste in my mouth.........go fund me for the building the wall.......just one of the many non-baseball issues. Best regards, David

That is the thing though -- the HOF is supposed to be for what he did on the field, not what he did off the field after he retired. I am sure that if we looked at what some of the current members of the Hall got into after their retirements, it would be equal to or worse than what Schilling did.

Clemens/Bonds probably get in next year in their 10th try. Other than that, don't see anyone that should go in.

With all that said, I personally don't care if they put them all in -- as long as they are able to have the live induction ceremony. I am selfish, I want to be able to get back up to Cooperstown, it is a beautiful town and lots of fun stuff to do.
 

KCLJ520

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That is the thing though -- the HOF is supposed to be for what he did on the field, not what he did off the field after he retired. I am sure that if we looked at what some of the current members of the Hall got into after their retirements, it would be equal to or worse than what Schilling did.

Clemens/Bonds probably get in next year in their 10th try. Other than that, don't see anyone that should go in.

With all that said, I personally don't care if they put them all in -- as long as they are able to have the live induction ceremony. I am selfish, I want to be able to get back up to Cooperstown, it is a beautiful town and lots of fun stuff to do.

I agree Katester, Cooperstown is a really fun place! One of my favorite trips I have ever taken, such great memories! I hope to get back again soon!

I had always adamantly been against the steriod users getting in, it sort of cheapened things in my opinion. I asked my wife what she thought yesterday, and she said something I had never really considered before. She said that it was wrong, yes. But that was the time, that era was the Steroid Era, it even has its own name in baseball history. So, if that was what players were doing at that time, and these players were competing in that era, then they were greats of that era, which is what the Hall has become. I thought that was a spot on description!

Jose Canseco said in "Juiced" that steroid use makes you stronger and faster, but does not make you able to hit major league pitching, that is a talent in and of itself, which I also realize to be true. I never particularly cared for Bonds or Clemens, though I really like some of their teams! I loved McGwire and Canseco as the Bash Brothers in Oakland, and followed the McGwire-Sosa home run chase so closely that season. It is really a hard topic, and I know there may always be an * in people's minds, which is something else my wife said. They put up those numbers, everyone knows they used, whoever gets in, its not like its a secret that they used. It was posted earlier that these guys had great numbers before using, which is another point in their favors as well.

I have long thought that the Hall should be separated into All Time Greats (Ruth, DiMaggio, Mantle, Musial, Williams, Ripken, etc.) and Greats of the Era (Larkin, Blyleven, Baines, etc.). Of course no one is ever going to agree completely on who should be in and who should be out (if I had my vote, Gil Hodges and Don Mattingly would be in!!), and my wife went on to say that you can never compare apples to apples, as we talked about earlier in this thread; had a player from back in the day had access to what players have now in terms of training, conditioning, health, supplements, etc. would they have been even better? (i.e. Babe in good physical shape? Mantle with healthy knees?)

In thinking about conditioning, I found this and thought this comparison was interesting, the 60 and 61* home run seasons side by side physical stats:

item_32424_1.jpg

NO one would EVER think that Maris had bigger biceps than the Babe! Imagine if Babe had access to the weight training that players do now. Imagine Babe at 6'2" healthy 225 lbs with 17 inch biceps! Can you say Ultimate Baseball Player??


Blessings,

Kevin
 
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PRosefan1

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Vizquel is a hall of famer in my book. 11 gold gloves. And if we’re opening the floodgates for roiders, Palmeiro should get in. 3k hits and 500 HR’s.
 
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Kirbyfan34

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I may be biased but McGwire had a solid career prior to 98 look at his Oakland years. Bad choices yes but if you keep him out them Bonds, Clemems, Arod and others never get to go. I do not think they should keep them out there was more than one season or time frame they need to consider.
I had thought, prior to the steroid mess of the 90's that McGwire had a solid shot at the Hall. However I did not see him as a first ballot player, and more like a Harmon Killebrew and may take a few years to get in.
 

katester44

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I had thought, prior to the steroid mess of the 90's that McGwire had a solid shot at the Hall. However I did not see him as a first ballot player, and more like a Harmon Killebrew and may take a few years to get in.

I would 2nd this statement. McGwire was never a 1st ballot guy to me. And if we are letting steroid guys in - Clemens and Bonds are the cream of that class. Both probably would have been HOF'rs based solely on their pre-steroid numbers.
 

anglinomics

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Vizquel is a hall of famer in my book. 11 gold gloves. And if we’re opening the floodgates for roiders, Palmeiro should get in. 3k hits and 500 HR’s.
I forgot to mention Pete Rose. The all time hit leader and many world series appearances. Some have claimed that Ichiro had more hits than Rose because of the hits he got in Japan. But if you add those hits, then you have to add Rose's minor league hits which would put him ahead of Ichiro in that situation as well.
 

katester44

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If no one gets in from this class - it will be purely because of off the field stuff after they were done playing. This isn't the same as Rose betting on games while he was a manager, or steroids being used - this is after their careers on the field were over.

If you want to keep Clemens out because of steroids, that is fine. But keeping someone like Schilling out because he was a somewhat skeezy business person and had a certain political view, that isn't okay with me.

Sliding further down the rabbit hole, what about Vizquel who has a domestic abuse charge on his ledger. To me that is a million times worse than any political view.

Just feel like the bar was set so low with Baines that the HOF needs to really tighten up their ship and get the right guys into the Hall.
 

7timecy

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The list can go on and on Harold Baines, Ted Simmons, Larry Walker, Alan Trammell, Tim Raines. Those players when they were playing were never looked at as future HOF'ers, of course that is just my opinion. I have never seen Simmons but all the rest I didn't go to the game to see them and that is what a HOF is.
 

David K.

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If no one gets in from this class - it will be purely because of off the field stuff after they were done playing. This isn't the same as Rose betting on games while he was a manager, or steroids being used - this is after their careers on the field were over.

If you want to keep Clemens out because of steroids, that is fine. But keeping someone like Schilling out because he was a somewhat skeezy business person and had a certain political view, that isn't okay with me.

Sliding further down the rabbit hole, what about Vizquel who has a domestic abuse charge on his ledger. To me that is a million times worse than any political view.

Just feel like the bar was set so low with Baines that the HOF needs to really tighten up their ship and get the right guys into the Hall.
Thats the way the cookie...... Best regards, David
 

bblair_2002

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Last time I went to induction weekend was 2007 when Gwynn/Ripken got in and downtown Cooperstown was jam-packed with people. If the COVID restrictions are lifted this year,that number will be dwarfed with Jeter's ceremony and I'll be staying right away. I'll probably go when Pujols gets in though.
 

KCLJ520

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Good call by the Hall. None of these guys deserve to be in first ballot and a majority of these guys, not at all.

I agree, the baseball writers nailed it this time. No more Hall of Above Average, the guys going in need to be of the highest caliber to make the HOF truly special!

God bless,

Kevin
 

KCLJ520

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Except for the ones who have already gotten in that shouldn't have. Seems like a double standard to me.
I agree, there are a number of players in there (from multiple eras, I should note) that probably were not the Hall of Fame-caliber players that others were. I think we went through what has come to be known as the Steroid Era, and the writers had to elect SOMEONE, and ended up with players who were subpar in some respects. The discussion has always raged: would McGwire, Canseco (two of my childhood heroes!), Bonds, etc. have been Hall of Famers without substances? I would sure have thought so! In a more level playing field era, would Baines, Larkin, Canseco, McGwire, et. al. have been more comparable players? Impossible to say now, but interesting food for thought.

I think the writers stayed away from the known users, and went with more "safe" candidates (Trammell, Larkin, Baines, etc.).

Blessings,

Kevin
 
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