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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KCLJ520" data-source="post: 3977980" data-attributes="member: 9102">I agree Katester, Cooperstown is a really fun place! One of my favorite trips I have ever taken, such great memories! I hope to get back again soon!I had always adamantly been against the steriod users getting in, it sort of cheapened things in my opinion. I asked my wife what she thought yesterday, and she said something I had never really considered before. She said that it was wrong, yes. But that was the time, that era was the Steroid Era, it even has its own name in baseball history. So, if that was what players were doing at that time, and these players were competing in that era, then they were greats of that era, which is what the Hall has become. I thought that was a spot on description!Jose Canseco said in "Juiced" that steroid use makes you stronger and faster, but does not make you able to hit major league pitching, that is a talent in and of itself, which I also realize to be true. I never particularly cared for Bonds or Clemens, though I really like some of their teams! I loved McGwire and Canseco as the Bash Brothers in Oakland, and followed the McGwire-Sosa home run chase so closely that season. It is really a hard topic, and I know there may always be an * in people's minds, which is something else my wife said. They put up those numbers, everyone knows they used, whoever gets in, its not like its a secret that they used. It was posted earlier that these guys had great numbers before using, which is another point in their favors as well.I have long thought that the Hall should be separated into All Time Greats (Ruth, DiMaggio, Mantle, Musial, Williams, Ripken, etc.) and Greats of the Era (Larkin, Blyleven, Baines, etc.). Of course no one is ever going to agree completely on who should be in and who should be out (if I had my vote, Gil Hodges and Don Mattingly would be in!!), and my wife went on to say that you can never compare apples to apples, as we talked about earlier in this thread; had a player from back in the day had access to what players have now in terms of training, conditioning, health, supplements, etc. would they have been even better? (i.e. Babe in good physical shape? Mantle with healthy knees?)In thinking about conditioning, I found this and thought this comparison was interesting, the 60 and 61* home run seasons side by side physical stats:[ATTACH=full]4810[/ATTACH]NO one would EVER think that Maris had bigger biceps than the Babe! Imagine if Babe had access to the weight training that players do now. Imagine Babe at 6'2" healthy 225 lbs with 17 inch biceps! Can you say Ultimate Baseball Player??Blessings,Kevin</blockquote>

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