How many FAKE autos are on EBAY?

[Hawaiian BamBam]

Hey guys, i have been buying alot of autos on ebay lately, and i started wondering lately, in regards to autos that are not psa/dna certified, or upper deck certified, etc, i was wondering in your opinion how bad do you think the problem is on ebay with fake autographs? any good/bad experiences? do you buy autos on ebay? any thoughts on whether or not its a good idea to buy autos on ebay? i had one experience on ebay years ago (sometime in the 1990's) where i bought a dodgers autographed picture with no COA.(cant remember exactly who the player was) I went to get it authenticated and they told me that it was a fake auto and their explanation was, that the kodak photo paper that the photo was made of, was a brand new kodak technology paper just issued in the 1990's, the problem is, the player was deceased in the 1980's and couldnt possibly sign a photo from the 1990's! just wanted to get your thoughts on this, thanks
elbert

 

[just-for-cards]

There are quite a few fakes out there and you have to be careful on what you buy.
I once was looking for a Janis Joplin auto and ran across the album 'Pearl' that was signed by her. I knew that she was dead before the album was even released and I reported him.
Be careful out there.

 

[valediction]

There are plenty of fakes, but there are usually enough available to compare samples. If there are multiple sellers offering signatures that look fairly consistent, I'm usually okay. The biggest problem with authenticating is price. I think that's why so many autos have the BIN option lately. Spending $20-30 to get a Bert Blyleven, Fergie Jenkins, Bob Feller type auto authenticated and slabbed, makes it tough to let go for less than $40-50, and they usually don't sell near that if you offer a straight up auction. it's even worse for lesser players like a Dick Calmus, or John Buzhardt. Spending $3 for the auto and another $20 to get a basic cert and see it sell for $1.29 even with that

 

[Hawaiian BamBam]

thank you guys for your responses, i appreciate it. when i buy autos on ebay, i usually look at if there are 3-4 other items that all look the same then i usually buy that one instead of the one that doesnt look like the others. what i also do is if possible ill do a search for an auto that is already certified and then used that as an example. i was wondering is it more likely for someone to fake an autograph of someone like albert pujols or derek jeter versus some smaller name player like a rafael belliard or a bob walk, or a shawon dunston, etc? thanks for your input
elbert

 

[abeabe]

Cheap players aren't usually worth faking like a Pujols would be. I would consider who you are buying from. If they are credible, they will stand behind their sale.

 

[89Giants]

I know there have been articles in the past about how many fake autos are on ebay. One thing to note though is that this is mainly for the higher valued autos. I would steer away from the big names(just buy a cert) but common/semi-star players whos autos start at $1-$2 are usually fine. There is no reason to forge them. I have sold some IP autos in the past and a few ebayers contacted me when they got there items back from PSA or JSA to let me know they passed and were real. I responded with a "LOL I would hope so since I saw them being auto'd by the player."

 

[mrmopar]

Knowledge is king. Know the signatures, know the sellers.

Even good sellers can come across bad items. They buy lots and a few fakes are slipped in. The best advice I would give is to get to know sellers who you have faith in and can trust. I buy from a small group of guys consistently, because I trust what they have to offer.

I may have some fakes in my collection, but I am pretty confident in most of what I obtain. Of course, the only biggies I go after are the older players and those generally look good. I don't buy the new hot guys, ever.
If I don't have solid confidence in an item, I may still go for it, but at a reduced price or pass completely.

I just watched one item, a 1983 or 84 TCMA Play Ball card of Gee Walker, sell on ebay recently. I am up in the air on the seller now. I emailed him, pointing out that the card was made in 83 or 84 (can't remember now, not worth looking up), yet Walker died in 1981. His reply, was that I was probably right. The item was at $4, but I bid anyway to mark it. It ended around $40-50! Because I had bid, I could see who the high bidder was and emailed him a warning. He replied, giving the seller the benefit of the doubt that he may not have known, yet I had informed the seller before the item ended and before the price exploded!

 

[nexus8793]

There was an interesting article/topic somewhere a while back about (focusing on Will Clark I think) the prevalence of batboys/clubhouse attendants signing autographs through the mail and even in person (in the clubhouse) in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Some of them were incredibly realistic looking. I think there might be a few of these on ebay. I also think there are a decent amount of fakes in general. Someone mentioned Shawon Dunston earlier. You have to remember that at one point Dunston was a huge prospect and the first overall pick in the draft, so there was a market out there for his signature, just like over the years, there has been a market for many other players people think of as "small-time" or not worth forging. Though the market for Dunston dried up, the fakes that were probably made at the time still filter down to ebay today.

The key as everyone has mentioned is knowledge. Comparing signatures is probably the best way to avoid getting ripped off. I tend to think there are more legit autographs than non-legit ones out there, but I might be wrong.

 

[Hawaiian BamBam]

thanks guys for your input, i think the best way to be 100% certain nowadays is probably just buy autos that are certified authentic by psa/dna.

 

[valediction]

thanks guys for your input, i think the best way to be 100% certain nowadays is probably just buy autos that are certified authentic by psa/dna.

there is no 100% certain unless you are standing next to someone when they sign it. There was a video online a while back showing a Sal Bando signing with either PSA or JSA on site to authenticate, and they had someone else sign the photo, brought it to the booth, paid the money, and got the COA, with no real examination. There was a cut auto card of Ray Dandridge that was certified even though the signature clearly read Heneritta Dandridge, someone on here or Beckett had a scan of it in their profile.
Ray Dandridge

an article

PSA has slabbed cards as Topps 1982 Blackless Variations when they are not.

If they tell me a card with the players name printed on the card front in black ink is the scarce version without the black ink, how comfortable should I be that they are any better judge than me of John Buzhardt's autograph?

Unless you're dealing in exceedingly rare cases, there are usually enough samples online to give you a feel for it. There are a half dozen or so Dick Calmus autographs on ebay right now. Six samples for a guy who pitched in 21 games in 1963 and 1 game in 1967.

 

[Hawaiian BamBam]

i agree, thankfully for me, i got 90% of my autos in person so I know for sure they are real, i dont plan on selling them ever, so i think for me that is good. for the rest of the autos, im hoping that if i do sell them, that psa/dna will be still regarded as the industry leader in authentication. thanks for sharing this info with us, I appreciate it.
elbert

 

[BiggioDiogu759]

My guess is there are way more than we know. Same with patches.

 

[Hawaiian BamBam]

i agree, we REALLY never know, unless we got them in person ourselves. i also think it is great that there are so many examples on ebay to check to see what a certain players auto looks like.

elbert

 

[valediction]

i agree, thankfully for me, i got 90% of my autos in person so I know for sure they are real, i dont plan on selling them ever, so i think for me that is good. for the rest of the autos, im hoping that if i do sell them, that psa/dna will be still regarded as the industry leader in authentication. thanks for sharing this info with us, I appreciate it.
elbert

Problem is, a pretty high percentage of autographs aren't worth authenticating for resale. Mantle, Ruth, Williams, Koufax...yeah. Chuck Cottier, Billy Gardner, Bob Watson, Juan Samuel...not so much. Paying $20 to authenticate a $3 auto may give you a warm fuzzy feeling when it comes back authentic, but barring an untimely death, it's not going to get you $23 ($33 if slabbed). I recently picked up a PSA slabbed 1960 Fleer Bob Feller autograph for a Best offer of $20 delivered. For me to buy a raw one, I had a lead on one for $15, it would have cost me $30 to authenticate and slab it, plus shipping and insurance there and back, probably would have been into it for $55-60. throw it on ebay and I wouldn't get $50 back, so if it sold, I'd lose money PLUS pay the listing, final value, and paypal fees.

 

[Hawaiian BamBam]

i didnt know it costs $20 to get an auto authenticated..ouch! that can add up very fast. my favorite is the sellers that guarantee authenticity and EVEN give you their own COA (Nowadays anyone with a printer can print a COA) with a LIFETIME GUARANTEE...give me a break! when someone sells their auto 5-10 years down the road that small time seller is loooong gone! even if someone was lucky to track down a seller, chances are 50/50 of even getting a refund, personal COA in my opinion are worthless to me as a buyer and seller because as a buyer my confidence in the authenticity of an autograph would be greater just because it has a COA by bob smiths sportcards or john deeres sport cards or frank johnsons sportscards! just my 2 cents worth!

 

[valediction]

i didnt know it costs $20 to get an auto authenticated..ouch! that can add up very fast. my favorite is the sellers that guarantee authenticity and EVEN give you their own COA (Nowadays anyone with a printer can print a COA) with a LIFETIME GUARANTEE...give me a break! when someone sells their auto 5-10 years down the road that small time seller is loooong gone! even if someone was lucky to track down a seller, chances are 50/50 of even getting a refund, personal COA in my opinion are worthless to me as a buyer and seller because as a buyer my confidence in the authenticity of an autograph would be greater just because it has a COA by bob smiths sportcards or john deeres sport cards or frank johnsons sportscards! just my 2 cents worth!

I think that was psa/dna starting price last time I checked. I know JSA offers a $4 option where they slap a non #'ed sticker on and say "looks good to us" kind of like the BCCG grading where a 10 means "looks Mint to us from here", but even that... Steve Garvey with $4 sticker

Here's 4 from the same seller with the stickers totalling $4.53 plus shipping it cost $16 plus shipping just to get them stickered with a 25 piece minimum for them to sticker it. Do you think spending $4 to get the sticker was worth it?

Seriously, a 10x all star, 1x MVP, 4x Gold Glove winner, and a 37 year old card with an approved autograph ends for 70% of the price to get it approved? There are a lot of losing situations out there

 

[Hawaiian BamBam]

i agree with you. i think the only time i would send anything in to psa/dna to where it would be worth the $20 is if i was lucky enough to get a superstar auto in person like pujols, jeter, ripken jr, posey, heyward, etc, someone that i know i can make my money back on, i dont think i would send it in for players like garvery, harold reynolds, pascual perez or lonnie smith! thanks for your input, i appreciate it.

 

[SWCAutographs]

When I get my autographs in person for resale I do issue a COA and matching hologram. TriStar, Steiner, and other companies didn't even issue COA's in the late 80's. If somebody want's to question my items authenticity that so be it. I take all the efforts of logging who, what, when and where's of all items signed. So in the future if I'm asked I can say, "Yes XX item was signed at XX place on XX date by XX player." I just feel better doing business that way.

PSA/DNA is just an OPINION based authenticator. I've had plenty of items I've gotten in person with my 3 boys or father submitted to PSA and they deemed "NOT AUTHENTIC." Perfect example.. Clyde Drexler. Clyde was opening a Circut City in the Houston area. I was able to get 4 basketballs and 4 floorboards. I submitted 1 basketball and 1 floorboard. They both didn't pass authentication because the "D" in Drexler was not correctly signed. So I did some research and found 2 on eBay PSA?DNA with the same "D" that I had.

I also came across pack pulled signed cards from Upper Deck packs with the same "D" in Drexler that I got in person. Just my experiences. So because my autographs are not PSA/DNA, does that mean they are worth less? All companies have to start somewhere to get there name out. I think I am doing a great job with logging my info on items I get for my company.

i didnt know it costs $20 to get an auto authenticated..ouch! that can add up very fast. my favorite is the sellers that guarantee authenticity and EVEN give you their own COA (Nowadays anyone with a printer can print a COA) with a LIFETIME GUARANTEE...give me a break! when someone sells their auto 5-10 years down the road that small time seller is loooong gone! even if someone was lucky to track down a seller, chances are 50/50 of even getting a refund, personal COA in my opinion are worthless to me as a buyer and seller because as a buyer my confidence in the authenticity of an autograph would be greater just because it has a COA by bob smiths sportcards or john deeres sport cards or frank johnsons sportscards! just my 2 cents worth!

 

[Hawaiian BamBam]

i was making a generic blanket statement about sellers. from what you write, it sounds like you have an amazing tracking system which i can just about bet 99% of sellers on ebay do not. you are the exception, and thats great that you track and inventory items the way you do.

i didnt know that psa dna is just an opinion, i thought they were the world leader in sports authentication because they are the biggest company out there doing authentication. (knowing this, i would still buy psa dna items) it seems nowadays its just not so certain with anything as i have even read threads were big companies like upper deck and donruss cant even be trusted 100% with autos even though they certify their autos, ive read alot op opinions that even their process is not 100% safe. i sure wish they still had big cards shows near me where i can go and get my autos in person! so i know for sure they are real.(i would keep these for my own pc, not for selling)

 

[SWCAutographs]

HBB,
I know of items that were passed by PSA/DNA and were 100% fake.