How not to ship cards. Feedback?

[chaddie84]

I had a somewhat frustrating mailday to say the least last week and am just getting around to actually getting at the cards today as I had to just set them aside out of frustration.

One card was a Topps Sterling Jackie Robinson Quad Relic /25 I purchased on another trading site. The card was jammed into a top-loader which was easily 20pts too narrow for the card. It was jammed so tight that the top-loader bowed completely out and there was no conventional way to removing the card without damaging either the case or the card. I had to use an exacto knife to free it from captivity. It looked as though no damage was done, so not realy harm there.

The other car was a Roger Maris Biography dual bat card which I bought BO on eBay. The card was shipped RAW in one of those hinged 15-card cases with the rounded inside edges and was able to rattle in the case throughout the entire shipment. I paid $25 for the card, which I figured would merit a Penny Sleeve on the card at the very least. This one did not arrive completely unscathed as there is noticable wear on almost every corner and significant dings on a couple.

My question for you all is how would you leave feedback on these two? I'm not one to leave outright negatives, but I also want to warn other buyers, and maybe show the wrong-doings of the sellers if they don't know better (I can't imagine they would not, though).

 

[rangersfan1982]

1. If the card was not damaged despite the case I would still leave positive feedback..better to over protect than under protect.

2. If the card came scrarthed or damaged I would contact the seller and see if they may give a partial refund (if you want) and if not I would leave negative or neautral feedback.

 

[mrmopar]

This is a FREQUENTLY repeated topic of discussion and for whatever reason, people seem to be awfully lenient on irresponsible people.

In both of those cases, the sender is clearly either purposefully disregarding or ignorant to the fact that carefully packaging of cards is a must.

Being the bad guy who pulls the trigger on a negative is hard, and maybe both sellers have perfect scores, but how many more times will this scenario repeat itself with worse results. How long can those types of sellers get lucky before something serious happens. Id say that happened with your Maris. The damage is done and the appearance and value is affected and you can't go back and make it right. If this happens with a card #'d to 2000, maybe you get a different one. If it's #'d to 100, you still might find a new one. What if it's #'d to 5 or a 1/1? There may not be another chance again to replace the card! It is not always about the money either...sometimes that card is more valuable to someone than 2-3X the money they paid!

I have had my fair share of near misses due to stupid packaging habits, but I have also had my share of damaged items. Most of the sellers will make it right, but do they change their habits because of it to protect those ahead of us? I have had several sellers begrudgingly refund me, but swear that they send everything that way and my package was the only one is X years to ever be damaged.

The only way to help correct this type of behavior is to show the sellers what they have done wrong and hold them responsible for it. It will work with some and not with others, but forgiving this type of behavior because you both got lucky is not the answer in my opinion.

 

[BoomerSooner]

I agree with rangersfan in both scenarios. Leave the appropriate feedback for each, but in the first instance, I would also send the seller a message indicating that the toploader was not correct for that card, and while you are not holding it against him, he should make the effort to package better for the next guy.

 

[mrmopar]

OK, now you are the next guy. You carefully check the sellers feedback and find a perfect rating. You assume a smooth transaction and win an auction for a rare care you really, really want. The sellers does the same thing to you that he did to chaddie, because he knows he can get away with it. That email chaddie sent him went in the trash after he read a few words. You can't possibly know from his stellar feedback that he does this often.

The card arrives crammed into a undersized toploader and it scratches the surface slightly. You are not happy because you are a condition sensitive kind of guy, so you email him and ask for a partial refund. He says no, my packaging is fine. I've never had an issue in 2000+ transactions. If you don't want the card, send it back. I'll send you a refund for your purchase price.

You really wanted and needed that card and you justify the damage to be minor enough to accept it, because after all it is #2/3 and you have never seen another copy. Do you then leave him a negative? Could chaddie's negative comment have helped you? Maybe you could have emailed the seller ahead of time, stressing that you don't want a repeat of that last transaction. Maybe you pass on bidding all together. Who knows for sure, but why let someone who richly deserves a smack upside the head continue to be clueless? I bet we've all tried to fit a thick card into one of the many sizes of toploaders and decided that the one we picked wouldn't work. Have you forced your own card into one that is clearly too small, risking damage, just because you didn't have the right size? Not very likely. You pulled the card back out and found the right size. Without knowing exactly what the seller of item one was thinking, it is impossible to know for sure if he is ignorant or a jerk. I feel based on the data we have, that this guy is definitely one of those two though. He purposefully crammed a card into a holder that was too small. You don't do this on accident.

but in the first instance, I would also send the seller a message indicating that the toploader was not correct for that card, and while you are not holding it against him, he should make the effort to package better for the next guy.

 

[greyminis]

Messaging the sellers is the first step. Their response will help dictate what your next move is. And at the very least, you remind them of the need to do a better job in the future. If their response doesn't feel right to you, then express yourself in feedback. In any event, it is irresponsible to jam a card into a holder that is too small. It doesn't take much to secure a card so it won't be damaged in transit.

 

[BoomerSooner]

OK, now you are the next guy. You carefully check the sellers feedback and find a perfect rating. You assume a smooth transaction and win an auction for a rare care you really, really want. The sellers does the same thing to you that he did to chaddie, because he knows he can get away with it. That email chaddie sent him went in the trash after he read a few words. You can't possibly know from his stellar feedback that he does this often.

The card arrives crammed into a undersized toploader and it scratches the surface slightly. You are not happy because you are a condition sensitive kind of guy, so you email him and ask for a partial refund. He says no, my packaging is fine. I've never had an issue in 2000+ transactions. If you don't want the card, send it back. I'll send you a refund for your purchase price.

You really wanted and needed that card and you justify the damage to be minor enough to accept it, because after all it is #2/3 and you have never seen another copy. Do you then leave him a negative? Could chaddie's negative comment have helped you? Maybe you could have emailed the seller ahead of time, stressing that you don't want a repeat of that last transaction. Maybe you pass on bidding all together. Who knows for sure, but why let someone who richly deserves a smack upside the head continue to be clueless? I bet we've all tried to fit a thick card into one of the many sizes of toploaders and decided that the one we picked wouldn't work. Have you forced your own card into one that is clearly too small, risking damage, just because you didn't have the right size? Not very likely. You pulled the card back out and found the right size. Without knowing exactly what the seller of item one was thinking, it is impossible to know for sure if he is ignorant or a jerk. I feel based on the data we have, that this guy is definitely one of those two though. He purposefully crammed a card into a holder that was too small. You don't do this on accident.

Ok, we'll play scenarios!! So you badly need that 2/3 card to complete your collection. Seller A has it in hand, but because 3-4 people left him negative feedbacks for the way he sends out cards, he has been suspended from Ebay and you'll never see that card again. Who loses? You totally ignore the fact that he sent the card timely, he completed the transaction, the card WAS NOT DAMAGED and that the buyer is not asking for any sort of refund.
Is it possible that this guy just doesn't know any better? Maybe it's a 13 year old kid selling on his Dads account? Maybe that message from you educates him enough that they change the way they do things. Maybe he has limited funds and thats the best he could do with what he has. Automatically assuming that this seller is doing it with bad intent, doesn't give a damn and is just a total jerk seems to be a stretch from a pessimist point of view..

 

[mrmopar]

I am not ignoring anything. Those factors you mentioned are recognized, but you are ignoring that a card was crammed into a holder that it obviously doesn't fit in. Is that accidental? Not a chance.

A seller offers an item, describes it and mails it. This is not a hard transaction for anyone, but so many people make it such. Trying to skim on shipping materials (PWE) or postage (postage due), not taking care for the item being mailed (loose items in boxes and mailers), etc.

Do I have higher than normal expectations? Perhaps. I will give leeway where I think a mistake has been made. When I think something was done on purpose, I don't. Like I said, I don't know for sure and can't contact the seller in this case, but it sounds intentional to me. Letting him/her off the hook only increases the chance someone else will get the same treatment.

 

[gonavy0806]

I am not ignoring anything. Those factors you mentioned are recognized, but you are ignoring that a card was crammed into a holder that it obviously doesn't fit in. Is that accidental? Not a chance.

A seller offers an item, describes it and mails it. This is not a hard transaction for anyone, but so many people make it such. Trying to skim on shipping materials (PWE) or postage (postage due), not taking care for the item being mailed (loose items in boxes and mailers), etc.

Do I have higher than normal expectations? Perhaps. I will give leeway where I think a mistake has been made. When I think something was done on purpose, I don't. Like I said, I don't know for sure and can't contact the seller in this case, but it sounds intentional to me. Letting him/her off the hook only increases the chance someone else will get the same treatment.

I think your standards/expectations are spot-on. Whether accidental or on purpose, the FACTS are supposed to be represented through feedback. Feedback ratings are overrated because the majority of the public, as indicated by many of the responses to this thread, are too forgiving and optimistic and don't want to be the "bad guy". But if the actual truth were stated for every transaction, good or bad, it would help all future buyers.

if worried about banning somebody, just go with neutral... but at least leave a comment so others can know what actually happened.

 

[chaddie84]

Thanks for the replies everyone. There are valid points on both ends. As long as the sellers are willing to work with me, that's most important in my book.

The seller for card #2 has flawless DSRs/Feedback, which is what really shocked me. I sent a message asking if they usually ship like this and got a swift reply stating they would refund my money if returned. I want to keep the card simply because it's not the kind of card that comes buy every day. I left feedback with 2/5 in the DSRs for "Item as Described" and "Communication" simply because the card came damaged, and I got no real "response" to any of my questions, just "we accept returns". It's also stated very clearly in the feedback how the card was shipped. IMO a negative is merited for providing damaged goods and providing nothing in response, so I could not do this in this case.

 

[mintman2]

Nothing personal, BUT I think the fb you left sucked.

You stated....... I'm not one to leave outright negatives, but I also want to warn other buyers
That fb will never be seen as anything other than a positive AND by leaving 2's on the dsr's you harmed the seller while not "warning" future buyers in any way. And why leave 2's ??? The card sucked. The communication sucked. Why not leave 1's ?

IMHO..... AT BEST you leave a neutral, and maybe a neg, but as a seller you know how detrimental the dsr's are. You want to "warn" ?, you leave a neutral or a neg. You want to punish ?, you leave bad dsr's.

 

[plopowitz]

Its tough... I understand that you're interested in the card, but if you are dissatisfied with the seller, for whatever reason, and they're willing to offer you you're money back, then I think that you should simply take the money back.. Maybe this seller is bad at packaging cards appropriately...well, you learned a lesson with this seller...and as long as it's of no cost to you, and you receive a full refund, than its a lesson learned. I don't believe in negative feedback, if the person you are dealing with can get the situation back to what it was before the transaction was initiated. The lesson learned is important, however. You've learned to never do business with that seller again. You have to forget about how bad you wanted what you purchased. Just my opinion.

 

[Yankeeswin]

Wow, can't believe some of these responses. Feedback is supposed to represent the customer's satisfaction about the transaction. The buyer was dissatisfied, because the seller didn't do his job. When the buyer asked about it, they got no apology, just "we accept returns".

It's the equivalent of buying a fragile product at a retail store and having the checkout clerk throw it carelessly in a bag, risking breakage. Maybe it arrived home in good shape, but is that good service? Would you recommend that merchant to someone else? I guess some of you would! I expect more.

I also will add, that the seller's poor shipping has another cost- time. The buyer has to waste his time writing to the seller, and if he returned the card he has to go to the post office, wait in line, and check to make sure the money has been refunded. For a $25 card, the expense in time to do this could be more than the card is worth. Never mind the imposition on my time that has been made by someone's failure to pack properly.

 

[Yankeeswin]

Its tough... I understand that you're interested in the card, but if you are dissatisfied with the seller, for whatever reason, and they're willing to offer you you're money back, then I think that you should simply take the money back.. Maybe this seller is bad at packaging cards appropriately...well, you learned a lesson with this seller...and as long as it's of no cost to you, and you receive a full refund, than its a lesson learned....

Did the seller offer anything for the buyer's time? Then it's not a full refund until he gets reimbursed for his time. Would be different if it was packaged properly and the PO ruined it.

 

[mrmopar]

This is exactly why feedback is pretty much a useless tool to gauge anything now days. Ebay made it a little better when they took away the sellers ability to leave negatives. Why? Because honest buyers were AFRAID to leave honest negative feedback to sellers who obviously deserved it for fear of retaliatory negatives. It happened and quite frequently. Ebay finally recognized it and did something about it.

Yes, it hurt sellers somewhat, because they couldn't warn other good sellers about bad buyers, but in the end, it's hard to stop a bad buyer until they have already won anyway. It might save some sellers from being ripped off, but I think the intent was to do more good in identifying poor sellers, not poor buyers.

Anyway, like Yankeeswin said, too many people are a little too lenient on bad habits if something isn't actually lost or damaged, which helps to reinforce the bad behavior up for discussion to begin with!

 

[chaddie84]

Full disclosure on the communication:

My question:

Hi,

I received the card late last week. Thank you for the prompt shipping. Out of curiosity, do you normally ship cards like this raw in hinged cases which are too large for the card? Do you have a shortage of properly-sized top-loaders and penny sleeves? I could hear the card clanging-around in the case while I was opening the bubble mailer and there are dings on multiple corners. I buy cards all the time on eBay and on multiple trading sites and this may be one of the worst
packaging jobs I've seen in a long time.

-Chad

The seller's response:

Dear chaddie84,

Hello, you are free to return if desired... Thank
you

Sent from my Droid Charge on Verizon 4G LTE

The response didn't really make me feel any better about the situation. Smart phones' truncated responses do not help.

I will no longer buy from this seller. I wonder if they would ship the Jumbo Ruth Relic on their eBay Logo the same way they did my Maris Bat card. Note this is a seller which appears to be a dealer of some form with flawless feedback (all 5.0 DSRs as well). I was doubly surprised by the packaging and the response, for this reason, I left low DSRs on "Item as Described" and "Communication". As a seller, I can say DSRs are just as important to maintaining top-rated seller status.

I'm sorry some of you feel my feedback "sucked". Feel free to check my feedback history and block the seller if you'd like. You've been warned . Perhaps this is an anomaly, or maybe they had a new hire at the shop who is still learning how to properly package cards. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt in most cases.

For me, to have to pay to return ship the card and wait for a refund just simply wasn't worth the hassle, and despite the minor damage to the card. I still want it. I guess I went the path of least resistance. For me, it wasn't worth the hassle.

Also, regarding the other transaction which had a Sterling GU CRAMMED in a top-loader 20-pts too narrow, I simply left positive feedback and PM'd the seller with a heads up, for which I received an apology and offer to return. The card arrived safely, and the seller now knows better, which was the most important part.

-Chad

 

[mintman2]

Hey Chad,
I give everyone the benifit of the doubt too. The reason I said your fb sucked was because you said you wanted to warn other buyers. The ONLY way to warn is with a neg. You're fb, which will be seen by others was positive, while the dsr's were negative and do little to warn potential buyers but harm the seller immensely.

Alan