Looking for opinions on this auction description

[mrmopar]

Take a look at the title and photo in the listing, then read the description. It is hard to read, but the stub pictured is dated 4/11/12. If you had interest in that item, what would be your expectation be as to what you would receive if you purchased this item? Do you believe there is ANY room for confusion here?

I know this is a loaded question, but I'd like to see a few responses, then I will complete the story. Set aside any outside knowledge you might have related to this subject and assume you know only what you can see or read from this listing.

 

[Rhubarb_Runner]

I certainly wouldn't use the word "stub" in the title; I'd hope it was the entire ticket. That said, the description below says "ticket" in mint condition and unused, and the photo is an entire ticket.

 

[dragonslayer913]

From reading the item description i would expect to receive a full intact non used ticket from the date mentioned and not sure what Clint Barmes hitting a home run has to do with anything

 

[Dilferules]

I would fully expect to receive the Cy Young Award that was presented to Clayton Kershaw.

Just kidding, I would expect to receive the ticket that is pictured and nothing else. The description says "stub" but it also says "unused" and shows a full ticket in the picture. It looks like it may have been torn out of a season ticket book. Therefore I would think the use of the term stub was just semantics - people think of tickets for a past event as "stubs". Hell there is that website stubhub that sells valid tickets for future events.

I don't know about other stadiums but in Seattle they scan the barcode on the ticket and don't even touch the thing, so a used ticket is identical to an unused one.

Richard

 

[cmcjr99]

just taking a shot in the dark here...

did you purchase it expecting to get the ticket pictured (showing garvey in the top left corner of the photo) and instead you received a ticket for the same game but with a different photo/highlight ?

 

[mrmopar]

To clarify, I personally consider a stub to basically be a used ticket or in the case of a ticket that is obviously unused, the full ticket but to an event that has expired. Where as a ticket just sounds like it is unused and still possible to use for an event. That is semantics I suppose. That was not the issue here thought.

cmcjr99 hit it on the head though. I did a BIN on the auction, fully expecting to get the ticket pictured, because...yes, I collect Steve Garvey and the stub is showing Garvey.

It arrived yesterday and it was a completely different ticket, with some other player shown (I don't even remember now). I quickly checked the date and the auction description, then wrote the seller an email mentioning that I didn't get the item as shown. I assumed it was a mistake and asked if the ticket shown was available. I said if not, I'd want a refund. If so, we needed to arrange for a swap.

Today I got a reply that went like this:

"The Dodgers stubs have about 10 different photos per game, so they are all different -- if you want the Garvey one, you can send it back for replacement.

I suppose that in the future, you need to let me (or other sellers) know if you have specific requests like that."

Apparently it was MY FAULT. I have replied with my opinion, nicely, and we'll see where this goes, but I am prepared to get nasty, even if it is only a $2 item. I basically told them I thought it would be fair for them to send the correct stub with a SASE and I would return the wrong ticket or they could compensate me for the return shipping.

I have a real issue paying to ship back items that I feel are seller mistakes. In this case, as the seller, I would offer to send the correct stub and offer the wrong stub as a gift for the inconvenience OR I would offer to compensate for the return of the stub. I would certainly not blame the buyer with a picture and description like that and expect them to return it at their cost.

 

[cmcjr99]

i can see both sides....

as a collector who really loves oddball items , i would definitely be aware of the fact that different versions of the tickets exist and appeal to collectors for a multitude of reasons....

personally , i also consider myself a rather knowledgeable and informed seller ....if i plan to sell an item , i either know about or take the time to LEARN about it so i can list/market it properly....when i have a photo included it is either the EXACT item for sale OR i include a note saying that the item pictured is a sample/stock photo....

that said , if this seller deals exclusively with tickets he may see all tickets to any given event as equal (seating location aside) regardless of their content.....he may only see these tickets as relevant for what happened that day (in this case kershaw's ceremony or the barmes homer)....quite likely he has no clue as to the difference in perceived values to various player collectors....perhaps your situation and correspondence will enlighten and educate him.....

on a side note , i agree 110% with you that i HATE having to pay to return an item ..doesn't matter if it was because the seller sent the wrong item , a damaged item , or if it was damaged in transit...the error is NOT MY FAULT so i don't feel i should have to reimburse the seller for his shipping OR have to pay to return it just to get the difference back....over the years , i have acquired hundreds and hundreds of cards that arrived damaged beyond what i would allow in my PC but whose purchase price was so low that it wasn't worth the cost of postage to return ....as such , i usually list most of them in my own ebay store (with the damage clearly noted) in an effort to recoup some of my investment (surprisingly , i often even make a profit which i think may be in part due to my accurate description of the damage fostering a trust between myself and the buyer)..... my own policy as a seller is that if i send you an incorrect item or damaged (not as described) item , i will provide a full refund AND i will also reimburse the buyer the actual cost of first class postage (bubble mailer w/dc , no PWEs)....

 

[mrmopar]

I thought about the variation aspect and although I know that there are different images, I was not aware that the same game would have different image variations. I would assume that image #1 would appear on games, A, B, C, D, etc. Image #2 would be on games L, M, N, O, P, ETC and so on. The fact that there are different images for each game is an interesting fact to me. It makes me wonder how many different variations there might be involving game dates with a single image. It is almost like a serial numbered card. The item is essentially the same except for the serial number and in this case, the stub would be the same except for the game date. It is possible that here could be a stub with the image I like for EVERY home game!! I don't think I am up to that challenge though...I just want one.

I don't handle ticket stubs in that volume to know and if I were selling them, I would fan out a selection of them or show each different stub, mainly because that would help clarify that I was not selling one, but one of several, AND opens up the opportunity for a different group of potential bidders. Perhaps even ask the seller to choose an image once they win or buy (like another seller I bought from did). He showed the different images and you selected the one you wanted.

I also can appreciate the fact that this seller sells tickets and the value in those is not in the image on the ticket, but rather the event and the seat location/type, but to sell tickets from past events, you are selling as a collectible. He referenced an event (CY Young presentation), which he apparently believed would drive the desire to buy and in some cases that would be true. People do buy stubs for historic events, but stubs with collectible images have always been more popular and desired than those with just seat assignments on them. That is an equal driver of desire in the case of stubs.

 

[BucCollector]

I like how this guy does it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Pittsb...intage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item4841025476

He displays all the pictures and dates available, with the following instruction:

"You will receive a PICTURE TICKET selected at random, unless you have a preference of game or picture. Please note your preference of picture or game when ordering or paying, although it's a good idea to inquire first for availability, as the specific ticket you want may have been recently purchased."

Oh, and yeah, that's not a stub, but the seller may have put that term in the listing title to optimize search results...

 

[metsman1986]

I think it was the sellers fault, but you did assume you were getting what was pictured in the listing....................I know what you mean about having to ship something back...................Kind of like kissing your dog on the mouth..............

 

[mintman2]

As a seller, for a $2 item I would apologize for any inconvenience, send the correct item, and tell the buyer to keep the wrong one.

As a buyer I assume I'm going to receive the item pictured unless stated otherwise in the description. If not, what's the point of having a pic ?

 

[Dilferules]

The title and description say it's a ticket for the 4/11 game, and the picture shows a ticket for the 4/11 game with Garvey on it. You can't expect to get the ticket for that exact seat since he has 10 available, but there is no way you can know that different picture variations exist. It would be a good idea for the seller to mention that the tickets might not all look the same in their description.

That being said, eBay does not require sellers to pay return shipping for items not as described. It really bones the buyer when they did nothing wrong, but at the same time it also somewhat prevents completely unnecessary returns like if you buy a $1 card and want to return it because it's only mint, not gem mint.

When I've had issues with items being damaged in the mail, the sellers with good customer service will usually just refund the purchase price plus shipping after seeing a picture of the damage. It's not like they want some damaged card around that they can't sell, anyways. In your case the seller feels that they can sell that ticket for $2 if it is returned to them. Seeing that their shipping cost was $1, I assume they sent it PWE? In that case, it will at least only cost you 45-65 cents to send it back. It's not great customer service but at least you are only paying for a stamp.

If you feel like the seller is a ripoff artist, you of course would be screwed sending it back PWE because he can claim he never got it with no delivery confirmation. This happened to me one time when some **** seller shipped a GU card in a PWE and when I sent the damaged card back PWE he claimed he never got it and I got zero refund.

Richard

 

[mintman2]

The title and description say it's a ticket for the 4/11 game, and the picture shows a ticket for the 4/11 game with Garvey on it. You can't expect to get the ticket for that exact seat since he has 10 available, but there is no way you can know that different picture variations exist. It would be a good idea for the seller to mention that the tickets might not all look the same in their description.

That being said, eBay does not require sellers to pay return shipping for items not as described. It really bones the buyer when they did nothing wrong, but at the same time it also somewhat prevents completely unnecessary returns like if you buy a $1 card and want to return it because it's only mint, not gem mint.

When I've had issues with items being damaged in the mail, the sellers with good customer service will usually just refund the purchase price plus shipping after seeing a picture of the damage. It's not like they want some damaged card around that they can't sell, anyways. In your case the seller feels that they can sell that ticket for $2 if it is returned to them. Seeing that their shipping cost was $1, I assume they sent it PWE? In that case, it will at least only cost you 45-65 cents to send it back. It's not great customer service but at least you are only paying for a stamp.

If you feel like the seller is a ripoff artist, you of course would be screwed sending it back PWE because he can claim he never got it with no delivery confirmation. This happened to me one time when some **** seller shipped a GU card in a PWE and when I sent the damaged card back PWE he claimed he never got it and I got zero refund.

Richard

Why can't you expect to receive the exact item pictured ????? The seller made no mention otherwise !!!!

The pwe thing.... Of course the buyer could do the same thing. "Sorry, didn't receive it". How much time and effort is a buyer expected to expend when the seller screws up ? ESPECIALLY on a $2 item ?? Tell paypal not received and move on.

 

[Dilferules]

Why can't you expect to receive the exact item pictured ????? The seller made no mention otherwise !!!!

The pwe thing.... Of course the buyer could do the same thing. "Sorry, didn't receive it". How much time and effort is a buyer expected to expend when the seller screws up ? ESPECIALLY on a $2 item ?? Tell paypal not received and move on.

Because the seller has 10 tickets available (if you look at the auction it's not a normal auction, it's one listing for 10 available items) and each ticket has to be a different seat, it's common sense that he might not get the exact seat/row number shown in the picture...that particular ticket is only 1/10 of the supply. However, if it is not explained in the listing that there are picture variations on the ticket, I would certainly expect to receive a ticket that looks exactly like the one shown with maybe a different seat/row/section.

If the auction were a normal auction with one item available, I would expect to receive the exact ticket shown unless the description says otherwise.

Regarding buyers saying they haven't received a PWE and getting refunded, there are some buyers that do that. Without delivery confirmation a seller will have no proof of delivery and will lose the paypal claim every time. I have contemplated doing that in the future if a seller ships a card they shouldn't in a PWE and it is damaged. However even though the seller is out the same amount of money whether I send it back or they refund for an item "not received", I do wrestle with the morality of lying about not receiving a card vs. receiving a damaged one in order to save shipping costs and a headache.
Richard

 

[mrmopar]

I admitted to receiving the stub and I have no intention of trying to get something for nothing. I am fine sending the wrong one back and even if it costs me a stamp, I will do it. He responded today by telling me I could send it back or not (it's my choice) and provided his address...nothing more about return shipping, etc. I sent another email asking for clarification on his position. If it still ambiguous, I will mail the stub back in a PWE and hope the guy isn't a tool and claims non-receipt or damage. We'll see. If he does, the least I can do it give him a richly deserved negative in the end.

It's not a financial thing, I can afford the stamp. It's a principle thing, much like your unwillingness to lie to get the refund.

 

[roxy]

Why can't you expect to receive the exact item pictured ????? The seller made no mention otherwise !!!!

The pwe thing.... Of course the buyer could do the same thing. "Sorry, didn't receive it". How much time and effort is a buyer expected to expend when the seller screws up ? ESPECIALLY on a $2 item ?? Tell paypal not received and move on.

???? Are you saying that you would lie about having received the card??

Roxy

 

[mrmopar]

Looks like this will be resolved with me as a satisfied customer. I mentioned that the game date is meaningless to me and the seller responded that it made it easier for him to correct. He has multiple tickets from other dates with the image I want, so he is going to send the image I want and he has even offered to let me keep the first stub.

I'd say that he handled it well, after a somewhat rigid beginning. I leave a happy customer and no reason to complain whatsoever. That should be a concern of a top seller and this one came through (assuming I get the ticket now!! )

Someone PM'd me about the "richly deserved" negative I mentioned and just to clarify, that would only have be given if the negotiations had completely broken down or if he tried to claim non-receipt of the stub I mailed back. I appreciate all of the opinions and although we may have differing views, I still hold firm that my expectation was reasonable and in the end, the seller was agreeable enough to accommodate those expectations is a positive manner. Positive feedback will be left by me.

 

[mintman2]

???? Are you saying that you would lie about having received the card??

Roxy

In this case no, but depending on the exact circumstance, yes. Had a seller send me a $75 card in a pwe once with a 44 cent stamp. When I received the card I knew immediately it was a fake. I waited 3 weeks then emailed the seller saying I hadn't received the card and requested a refund. With a nasty note attached they sent the refund. If they hadn't refunded, YES, I would have lied to paypal just like I lied to them. What reasonable option did I have ?

1) I say it's a fake, send the card back, they refund my money, and they can now sell to someone else. UNACCEPTABLE

2) I keep the card and lose $75. UNACCEPTABLE

3) Do what I did. ACCEPTABLE

It's like when the police tell a suspect they have a witness when in fact they don't. Sometimes, and I stress SOMETIMES, under the right conditions, it's okay to lie. I don't mind lying to someone who's crooked for the common good, and I didn't do it for personal gain. My conscience is clear.


Does my butt look big in these pants ? hmmmmmmmmm, to lie or not to lie, that is the question.......