2004 Cracker Jack Roger Clemens Certified autograph?

[greyminis]

This is the second 2004 Cracker Jack Roger Clemens 'Certified' autograph that has been on ebay in the last couple days.

It is not part of the checklist, and I've never seen or heard of its existence until yesterday, some 8 years after the release.

Wonder if anyone has any insight?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16080674289...984.m1423.l2649&autorefresh=true#ht_500wt_924

 

[Droubaysports]

from baseball card pedia:
Autographed & Game-Used

Mini Autographs

Topps stated these could be found on average of 1 in 258 packs.

Gary Sheffield (50)

Javier Vasquez

Brandon Webb

Marcus Giles

Luis Castillo

Miguel Cabrera

Secret Surprise Signatures

Aubrey Huff

Brian Giles

Cliff Floyd

Dustin McGowan

Dontrelle Willis

Felix Pie

Jerome Williams

Mike Lamb

Merkin Valdez

Scott Posednik

Scott Rolen

 

[greyminis]

Yes, that list looks accurate...so what is this Clemens? And if it is real, why hasn't it surfaced until now?

 

[mintman2]

I believe the key is "Secret Surprise Signatures". It could just be incredibly rare. There were some ripken autos from 05 heroes that I never saw into 2010, when I quit looking for them.

 

[greyminis]

No, the "Secret Surprise" autographs are different than this Clemens.

Here's one as an example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-TOPPS-...=US_Baseball&hash=item519d3c6bc4#ht_500wt_665

The Clemens is more like the Gary Sheffield, Javier Vasquez, Brandon Webb, Marcus Giles, Luis Castillo and Miguel Cabrera autographs.

Here's an example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Topps-...=US_Baseball&hash=item2ebdb0fe9c#ht_500wt_898

I'm not saying the Clemens isn't real...it's just hard to believe a card that isn't even supposed to exist all of a sudden surfaces 8 years later.

 

[greyminis]

No, the "Secret Surprise" autographs are different than this Clemens.

Here's one as an example.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-TOPPS-...=US_Baseball&hash=item519d3c6bc4#ht_500wt_665

The Clemens is more like the Gary Sheffield, Javier Vasquez, Brandon Webb, Marcus Giles, Luis Castillo and Miguel Cabrera autographs.

Here's an example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-Topps-...=US_Baseball&hash=item2ebdb0fe9c#ht_500wt_898

I'm not saying the Clemens isn't real...it's just hard to believe a card that isn't even supposed to exist all of a sudden surfaces 8 years later.

 

[David K.]

That strange....wonder why the clemens was not on the checklist? Maybe a call to Topps Customer Service for an answer to your question? Best regards, David

 

[RyanL24]

Topps CS won't know, you can save yourself the time there...

I saw these Clemens' discussed in another place. A guy there has all of the CJ autos ever made and has never seen these. Another member pointed to the seller's closed auctions and believes there are several fake items mixed in with good ones. People are leaning towards "fake" in the thread I read.

 

[greyminis]

I thought I had all of the Cracker Jack autographs as well...so I'm leaning towards fake myself, but the card's themselves look comparable to the other 04 CJ autographs and one ebay listing even had the back of the card with the hologram sticker. Forger did a great job if they're fake.

It sure would be great to have someone at Topps who actually knew all of the ins and outs of a particular release to get definitive answers from.

 

[sandman43103]

I thought I had all of the Cracker Jack autographs as well...so I'm leaning towards fake myself, but the card's themselves look comparable to the other 04 CJ autographs and one ebay listing even had the back of the card with the hologram sticker. Forger did a great job if they're fake.

It sure would be great to have someone at Topps who actually knew all of the ins and outs of a particular release to get definitive answers from.

The fact that it had the hologram doesn't hold much weight to me. I recently bought four low-end Paul Williams autos off of COMC and three of them did not have the hologram on the back. There is very little residue where the hologram would be...seems they are easy to remove.

Here's one of the cards I bought (one on right has sticker removed, left one is legit):
http://www.checkoutmycards.com/Card..._Premiere_Autographs/PW/Paul_Williams/3613888

Sellers had four or five at one time...three with no sticker.

 

[KCLJ520]

I guess someone "$127.50 liked it!" Hope the buyer has some insight into the mystery!!

 

[greyminis]

It's a deal if it's real.

 

[greyminis]

here's another one...different seller, same private bidding.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ROGER-CLEME...S_Baseball&hash=item4ab7dffc43#ht_2408wt_1044

 

[BoomerSooner]

When something doesn't add up, it can't be true. Not on any checklist, never seen before, from a product that is YEARs old. And, personally, I don't think that sig is real.

 

[metsman1986]

Not familiar with Clemens signature, but both auctions appear to be signed by the same person, whoever that is....................If it's not on the checklist, I'd say not real..................But then again, the 2003 Topps Record Breakers Auto checklist has 2 on there that I've not run across..................

 

[greyminis]

I messaged seller and asked what return policy was should card be a fake. Waiting on response.

 

[Dilferules]

There are plenty of cards out there that aren't on official checklists and are completely real. The crazy part is none of them showing up until now...when all of a sudden there are 2 or 3 out there. Could it be that Topps planned to include this card, but didn't get them in time so they didn't pack it out or put in a redemption card? Then later they received a small number of these cards back from Clemens signed and set them aside somewhere....years later somebody found them and Topps sent them out as replacement cards for redemptions that the players never signed for? Or more likely, they were backdoored? Seems kind of weird for a faker to create a whole new card.
Richard

 

[greyminis]

It's cool if it's real...but it makes it hard for the collector with a limited budget and a specific focus to know whether to pay up for a card like this that shows up way after the fact. No one wants to be burned, so where do you turn in a situation like this?

 

[BoomerSooner]

It's cool if it's real...but it makes it hard for the collector with a limited budget and a specific focus to know whether to pay up for a card like this that shows up way after the fact. No one wants to be burned, so where do you turn in a situation like this?

You know what might be worth a shot? Email Bob Lemke, who has been responsible for the production of the Standard Catalog (aka the Big Book) of cards for years & years. Probably can get his emaill addy via Sports Collectors Digest website. Send him a link form those auctions, and see what he has to say. If it's real, he'll want to include in in the next Standard list, and he has contacts beyond contacts to verify things like this.

 

[greyminis]

Just emailed Bob.