Archives Harper..
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WOW. Is this a different vertion of the basic card or is this the card from the set. I was going to do the set but if this is the basic card i might as well just give up...
They are listing the 241 card as a Super Short Print. I will not be including it in my set or wantlist. A full checklist is here: http://sportscardradio.com/index.ph...s/1160-2012-topps-archives-baseball-checklist
It looks like 201-240 are short prints and not the same years as 1-200. Makes it VERY confusing. I just finished sorting my box and posting my wantlist in the wantlists forum.
Thanks,
Jeff
It looks like 201-240 are short prints and not the same years as 1-200. Makes it VERY confusing. I just finished sorting my box and posting my wantlist in the wantlists forum.
Thanks,
Jeff
Unreal! WoW! Best regards, David
I see the set is 1-200.
This type of thing is a joke. So glad I don't buy new product in packs anymore. This type of gimmick will be the death of the hobby someday.
It might hurt the hobby for the common, set builder type but won't kill it for the high risk/reward collector................They eat this kind of stuff up, believe me................
I'm working on the super short print of the 2011 bowman platinum ruby serial #25.....I have about 38 of the 100.........Got lucky and landed the Harper for only $125.00...the first four when in the range of $240.00 to $200.00....Best regards, David
I think this type of gimmick has kept the hobby a lot healthier than it would be without it. The hobby has changed from kids to adults, and once adults get involved you NEED to keep coming up with things. Once you get to a point where you can just go and buy a rack box of 1985 Topps, where is the fun? You put together the set with about 250 duplicates/triplicates/"another #*&$ Rafael Santana!?", you have enough glossy all stars to complete the set, though you may need to swap a dupe or two for the ones you need, and you're done. People started collecting splatter pattern variations of Donruss, not to mention *denotes* league leader vs *denotes league Leader, or Leaf, Inc. vs Leaf, Inc variations, or the Fleer 'printed in Canada' variations. In this day and age many people NEED to chase something. Imagine being a player collector today and your 2012 wantlist was CC Sabathia base, CC Sabathia All-Star, CC Sabathia Record Breaker and then you're done for the year. People aren't going to keep buying product once they finish their Brewers team set just to get another Ryan Braun base. Look at the threads on these boards that start with "ran to Target to pick up some laundry soap" or "went to the LCS to get more top loaders and while I was at the register, they had a box of Archives/Bowman chrome/Heritage with 3 packs left, so I grabbed them" They aren't doing it in hopes of getting another David Price base card. How many of those stories do you remember about Upper Deck 40 man, Topps Total, Donruss Triple Play? There has to be something in there to get you interested, and one of the biggest incentives for most people is money. People aren't going to keep buying $60-125 boxes or $10-12 jumbo packs for the one per box parallels or the $2-3 packs for the 1:6 inserts, but throw in a short printed hot rookie that's going for $200 online and they'll be more likely to drop $5-10 on packs 'since they're already there'.
It's a tough-to-pull rookie card of a highly anticipated prospect now strutting his stuff in the bigs, why would that be surprising? And from a decently priced, affordable box of good looking cards, not overly glossy, with nods to history, memory evoking designs, and a good mix of current & retired players...will that price hold? Doubtful, the first few of a hot card that hit the bay usually go crazy, then as the market weighs out the true rarity, the price settles..
I don't doubt there are people who eat this up. By all means, more power to them if they can afford to drop $200-300 on some guy who might not have much more of a career than Mario Mendoza. I know it is what sells packs right now. Still, SP was bad enough, now there are SUPER SPs! Sorry, that is just wrong. Next up, SSSPs?
You see more and more people, "collectors" if you will, becoming disillusioned with cards. The big hit gambler is not keeping the hobby alive in my mind, at least not in the long term. It is the everyday guy who might spend $20-30 a month or even week, week/month in and out. They might not drop what the box and pack guys do, but they keep the spirit alive and they last longer. They continue to promote the hobby and recruit others. The box guys eventually see that they can't keep making a profit and eventually sell out and find something less risky.
I love cards and have collected for over 30 years now, but I got tired of the gimmicks and stopped buying packs and I gotta say, I don't miss it much at all. I'm about ready for 3 new cards of my player a year at this point too! After watching the list grow with 2-3 "affordable" cards each year and a slew of 1/1s and cards numbered to 10 or less, I am tired of the chase. I have been seriously contemplating quitting new cards completely. Luckily, the number of new Garvey cards has been fairly minimal, but when he shows up, it is usually in very low print run quantities and higher end products. Prices have come down considerably from the heyday, but even though it may cost me less than it used to, it just isn't as fun anymore. You'd think I'd be happier, but I now frequently watch 1/1s go unsold for months.
I still find some neater older and oddball items that don't cost a fortune and recycle the same photo and design and that is keeping my interest in the player collection, but I have shifted my focus mostly to signed vintage cards. Card collecting will never completely die off, but by turning off more and more of the true long time collectors year after year and relying on those big money prospectors and gamblers, it is going to burn them.
Unless you pulled every card you own from a pack in the last 10+ years, your collection has almost certainly dropped in value and although the true collector may not care, he/she is also not going to continue pumping big money into cards that won't be worth 1/10th in 5 years...not just for the fun of it and those that expected their cards to hold value or increase because they thought cards might be a decent investment, based on stories of the past, will fade away taking their money with them.
Oh yeah, the real key point I forgot to add. No kids = no future! Once we die, so does the hobby if we can't get kids interested in cards again and have them be able to "compete" with adults for interesting cards, not just CC, Total and 40 man sets.
You see more and more people, "collectors" if you will, becoming disillusioned with cards. The big hit gambler is not keeping the hobby alive in my mind, at least not in the long term. It is the everyday guy who might spend $20-30 a month or even week, week/month in and out. They might not drop what the box and pack guys do, but they keep the spirit alive and they last longer. They continue to promote the hobby and recruit others. The box guys eventually see that they can't keep making a profit and eventually sell out and find something less risky.
I love cards and have collected for over 30 years now, but I got tired of the gimmicks and stopped buying packs and I gotta say, I don't miss it much at all. I'm about ready for 3 new cards of my player a year at this point too! After watching the list grow with 2-3 "affordable" cards each year and a slew of 1/1s and cards numbered to 10 or less, I am tired of the chase. I have been seriously contemplating quitting new cards completely. Luckily, the number of new Garvey cards has been fairly minimal, but when he shows up, it is usually in very low print run quantities and higher end products. Prices have come down considerably from the heyday, but even though it may cost me less than it used to, it just isn't as fun anymore. You'd think I'd be happier, but I now frequently watch 1/1s go unsold for months.
I still find some neater older and oddball items that don't cost a fortune and recycle the same photo and design and that is keeping my interest in the player collection, but I have shifted my focus mostly to signed vintage cards. Card collecting will never completely die off, but by turning off more and more of the true long time collectors year after year and relying on those big money prospectors and gamblers, it is going to burn them.
Unless you pulled every card you own from a pack in the last 10+ years, your collection has almost certainly dropped in value and although the true collector may not care, he/she is also not going to continue pumping big money into cards that won't be worth 1/10th in 5 years...not just for the fun of it and those that expected their cards to hold value or increase because they thought cards might be a decent investment, based on stories of the past, will fade away taking their money with them.
Oh yeah, the real key point I forgot to add. No kids = no future! Once we die, so does the hobby if we can't get kids interested in cards again and have them be able to "compete" with adults for interesting cards, not just CC, Total and 40 man sets.
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You'll always have kids in the hobby, it won't be on the scale it was during the boom years, but they'll still be there. Some will leave for a while, and come back as adults with more disposable income. That is a key part of the hobby. The boom in the late 70's early 80's blew the hobby up so big so fast that many people were left with unrealistic expectations. When boxes you could buy retail for $15 were suddenly $150-250 items just 2-4 years later, and 15 year old cards were $300+, people started seeing $$$, and when people start seeing that, a fair number of them assume things will keep going that way for a long time. That puts added pressure on the card makers to keep that market strong to keep their profits rolling in, and the only way to keep things strong is to keep coming up with hooks to get people to keep buying. When products started coming out where the key rookies were only $2-3 people start looking elsewhere. Then they have to ramp up production to meet demand, because what business wants to leave money on the table? That in turn leads to "these are a lot easier to get than they used to be" so secondary market prices start going down, then you get angry 'collectors' because first they couldn't get cards, and then when they could, they aren't worth as much as the cards they couldn't get.
Kids today are a different breed than we were. They can't just walk to the store and buy a few packs. Between the baseball games and practice, religion classes, school, then it's hockey season, squeeze in a family vacation here and there, get some time online, get the obligatory video games out of their system, getting my niece and nephews to do ANYTHING for more than 60-90 minutes is a chore. I used to spend hours on my cards, sorting, storing, making lists of what I needed, what doubles I had to trade, reading Baseball cards magazine, Baseball Digest, SCD, whatever I could get my hands on. Now magazines like that are a relic of times gone by. Baseball Digest went from a small monthly kid friendly format to a more standard adult size, trimmed its offerings to 6 issues a year , Baseball Cards is long gone, SCD went from 200-300 pages a week way down. I remember one issue I picked up a year or two ago had less than 50 pages and almost no real commentary on the hobby.
Those paper publications were doomed no matter what though, wouldn't you say? Darn internet just kills everything. 
Some great posts valediction, and not just because you mentioned CC.
My Henderson collection is worth way more than what I paid. Well, the nice cards are... the base cards will never be worth the shipping I paid, but...
Anyway, mrmopar why all the gloom and doom? I think the industry will be alright. I think you are underestimating the amount of money the gambler types put into the hobby, and overestimating their interest in making their money back on each box. I can tell from your story of not buying wax anymore that you don't have the mentality of a gambler. Myself, I had a bad habit of buying $20 blasters from WalMart. I KNEW I wasn't going to pull anything, but in my mind it was better than putting $20 in a slot machine and walking away with nothing. With blasters you at least walk away with a worthless stack of cardboard. LoL. There was that super small chance of pulling something truly awesome though, like a George Washington cut autograph... and that small chance kept calling to me. Imagine how much that card would be worth? And all I have to invest is $20 for my shot at it? Sign me up!!
People are funny. I never would "waste" $120 on a box of cards, but every time I go to the casinos I bring $120 expecting to lose every penny. If casinos have stayed in business all these years, Topps should be able to manage...
There are guys who sit down and open $15K worth of cards in one sitting. Sure, they are hoping they at least break even, but it's not what they are after. They are after that truly huge hit, and more than that... they are after the feeling they get while persuing the huge hit. Baseball cards is truly a form of gambling- they even have to offer the NPN programs to avoid being considered gambling. If they didn't have NPN's, you would have to be 18 to buy baseball cards (of course this applies only to unopened product).
On the one hand, I can see why people would be upset that the set has a $200+ card in it and they feel like they can't complete the set. On the other hand, this is nothing new. At one time the 85 Topps McGwire sold for hundreds of dollars. That must have been odd, having people thinking they couldn't afford to put together a set of 85 Topps. The 89 UD Griffey, the 90 Leaf Frank Thomas.... well the list goes on and on... I would suggest practicing patience and hoping the cost of this card goes down dramatically in the future. I'm 99% sure that it will. Even if Bryce Harper really does turn out to be better than Babe Ruth as some people seem to believe, this isn't even going to be considered one of his key RCs. Just a gimmic that was really hot at first and helped Topps move their product. Kind of like the 2006 Alex Gordon card. It recently sold for $200 which is a lot, but they once sold for $10K+.
Some great posts valediction, and not just because you mentioned CC.
My Henderson collection is worth way more than what I paid. Well, the nice cards are... the base cards will never be worth the shipping I paid, but...
Anyway, mrmopar why all the gloom and doom? I think the industry will be alright. I think you are underestimating the amount of money the gambler types put into the hobby, and overestimating their interest in making their money back on each box. I can tell from your story of not buying wax anymore that you don't have the mentality of a gambler. Myself, I had a bad habit of buying $20 blasters from WalMart. I KNEW I wasn't going to pull anything, but in my mind it was better than putting $20 in a slot machine and walking away with nothing. With blasters you at least walk away with a worthless stack of cardboard. LoL. There was that super small chance of pulling something truly awesome though, like a George Washington cut autograph... and that small chance kept calling to me. Imagine how much that card would be worth? And all I have to invest is $20 for my shot at it? Sign me up!!
People are funny. I never would "waste" $120 on a box of cards, but every time I go to the casinos I bring $120 expecting to lose every penny. If casinos have stayed in business all these years, Topps should be able to manage...
There are guys who sit down and open $15K worth of cards in one sitting. Sure, they are hoping they at least break even, but it's not what they are after. They are after that truly huge hit, and more than that... they are after the feeling they get while persuing the huge hit. Baseball cards is truly a form of gambling- they even have to offer the NPN programs to avoid being considered gambling. If they didn't have NPN's, you would have to be 18 to buy baseball cards (of course this applies only to unopened product).
On the one hand, I can see why people would be upset that the set has a $200+ card in it and they feel like they can't complete the set. On the other hand, this is nothing new. At one time the 85 Topps McGwire sold for hundreds of dollars. That must have been odd, having people thinking they couldn't afford to put together a set of 85 Topps. The 89 UD Griffey, the 90 Leaf Frank Thomas.... well the list goes on and on... I would suggest practicing patience and hoping the cost of this card goes down dramatically in the future. I'm 99% sure that it will. Even if Bryce Harper really does turn out to be better than Babe Ruth as some people seem to believe, this isn't even going to be considered one of his key RCs. Just a gimmic that was really hot at first and helped Topps move their product. Kind of like the 2006 Alex Gordon card. It recently sold for $200 which is a lot, but they once sold for $10K+.
You got that right. I am not a gambler and I currently don't like either of those two options with my $120, but if I had to pick one or the other, I'd rather have something for my money (the pile of junk cards) than to end up reeking of cigarette smoke and have nothing but frustration that I didn't win anything and am now out $120!
I guess if I had won at gambling before, my attitude might be different. Same goes for boxes. I rarely ever "won" when buying boxes, so it just became that much easier to quit.
I guess if I had won at gambling before, my attitude might be different. Same goes for boxes. I rarely ever "won" when buying boxes, so it just became that much easier to quit.
Quote:"You see more and more people, "collectors" if you will, becoming disillusioned with cards."
No, I see YOU being disillusioned. Doesn't appear the membership on this board is declining. My LCS is as busy as ever. Last 3 shows I went to were a beehive of sales, trading and ripping wax.
Quote:"I have been seriously contemplating quitting new cards completely."
Do it. If there is any chance at all that doing that makes you happier, do it. It would certainly help the hobby a ton if you stopped badmouthing it constantly.
Quote:"Once we die, so does the hobby if we can't get kids interested in cards again"
A long-time hobby myth. A cliche of sorts, backed by no data.
No, I see YOU being disillusioned. Doesn't appear the membership on this board is declining. My LCS is as busy as ever. Last 3 shows I went to were a beehive of sales, trading and ripping wax.
Quote:"I have been seriously contemplating quitting new cards completely."
Do it. If there is any chance at all that doing that makes you happier, do it. It would certainly help the hobby a ton if you stopped badmouthing it constantly.
Quote:"Once we die, so does the hobby if we can't get kids interested in cards again"
A long-time hobby myth. A cliche of sorts, backed by no data.
Sorry to steer this thread the wrong way, but this needs a reply.
Sure, the membership of this board continues to climb each and every day. How many people stick around and remain active and contribute to discussions, answer questions, hold contests and generally participate? How many have joined and never posted or traded once? There is a small core of people who contribute to most of the discussions and activities outside of trading.
How are YOU improving this site and the hobby, BoomerSooner? Do you share and help people out with information and knowledge? Do you try to help a collector out now and again because they need a card, not because you need something from them? Do you hold contests and/or give away cards? Have you donated any cards to the YSL effort, seeing as how you love new cards? I'm sure you have come upon some or pulled some from packs? Maybe. Probably not. You probably chase down cards you need and satisfy your needs, like the average collector. The site is probably just a means to an end and I'm guessing you probably don't really even appreciate the fact that it is here for your free use and take it for granted. I see you are willing to put in the effort, by your signature..."Sorry, no longer checking buckets/lists,post a list of what you have and I will reply." I also notice I have lit a fire under you at least a couple of times with my comments, so you obviously like to argue. That must be your contribution to the site, the official site "arguer".
I discuss card topics and issues and yes, when I disagree with a point of view or have a negative opinion, I still share it. The card hobby isn't all just fun and sugary bubbles, it has its issues and it's OK to share the bad with the good.
As for the "cliche" of when adults die, so does the hobby. Obviously everyone who collects is not the same age. There is a spread of collectors across the age spectrum, but I would guess from my personal observations over the last several decades that membership in this hobby is slowly becoming dominated by older and older males. It's not 100% accurate, and there will always be exceptions, but if kids can't afford to collect and don't become interested in it, then there is a good chance they never will. I'd bet that the percentage of kids interested in trading cards declines annually. I wish there was a way to see for sure, because it would be nice to know for sure. There will always be people collecting cards, but as with anything that becomes less popular, eventually it fizzles.
Tell you what, if you don't like my opinions and comments, block me and you won't have to see them! It won't hurt my feelings to know you are not part of my audience any longer.
Sure, the membership of this board continues to climb each and every day. How many people stick around and remain active and contribute to discussions, answer questions, hold contests and generally participate? How many have joined and never posted or traded once? There is a small core of people who contribute to most of the discussions and activities outside of trading.
How are YOU improving this site and the hobby, BoomerSooner? Do you share and help people out with information and knowledge? Do you try to help a collector out now and again because they need a card, not because you need something from them? Do you hold contests and/or give away cards? Have you donated any cards to the YSL effort, seeing as how you love new cards? I'm sure you have come upon some or pulled some from packs? Maybe. Probably not. You probably chase down cards you need and satisfy your needs, like the average collector. The site is probably just a means to an end and I'm guessing you probably don't really even appreciate the fact that it is here for your free use and take it for granted. I see you are willing to put in the effort, by your signature..."Sorry, no longer checking buckets/lists,post a list of what you have and I will reply." I also notice I have lit a fire under you at least a couple of times with my comments, so you obviously like to argue. That must be your contribution to the site, the official site "arguer".
I discuss card topics and issues and yes, when I disagree with a point of view or have a negative opinion, I still share it. The card hobby isn't all just fun and sugary bubbles, it has its issues and it's OK to share the bad with the good.
As for the "cliche" of when adults die, so does the hobby. Obviously everyone who collects is not the same age. There is a spread of collectors across the age spectrum, but I would guess from my personal observations over the last several decades that membership in this hobby is slowly becoming dominated by older and older males. It's not 100% accurate, and there will always be exceptions, but if kids can't afford to collect and don't become interested in it, then there is a good chance they never will. I'd bet that the percentage of kids interested in trading cards declines annually. I wish there was a way to see for sure, because it would be nice to know for sure. There will always be people collecting cards, but as with anything that becomes less popular, eventually it fizzles.
Tell you what, if you don't like my opinions and comments, block me and you won't have to see them! It won't hurt my feelings to know you are not part of my audience any longer.
lol. fun times my friends.. fun times...
I stand corrected.
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For a long time I thought that the future of the hobby was doomed because you never really see kids around 10-12 years old collecting like everybody did when I was that age. The thing is, 95% of those kids from the 80's and early 90's already stopped collecting years and years ago and the industry has been pretty stable for the last few years (after it completely crashed for about 10 years) from my point of view.
I realized a little while ago that while I don't see kids around 10-12 collecting anymore, it's because they seem to start around 15-20 now. In the same number as when I was that age? No, but there aren't nearly as many adults collecting as back then, too. I think a higher percentage of these people who start around 15-20 will continue to collect for years and years because by the time they hit that age they have already formed a lot of their adult tastes, and they aren't going to look on card collecting as "kids and fat guys in Hawaiian shirts stuff" when they get older.
For the hobby to continue, somebody needs to buy packs. And far fewer people are going to buy packs if there's not a chance of hitting a high-dollar card. The genie is already out of that bottle, it's never going back to the way it used to be.
Richard
I realized a little while ago that while I don't see kids around 10-12 collecting anymore, it's because they seem to start around 15-20 now. In the same number as when I was that age? No, but there aren't nearly as many adults collecting as back then, too. I think a higher percentage of these people who start around 15-20 will continue to collect for years and years because by the time they hit that age they have already formed a lot of their adult tastes, and they aren't going to look on card collecting as "kids and fat guys in Hawaiian shirts stuff" when they get older.
For the hobby to continue, somebody needs to buy packs. And far fewer people are going to buy packs if there's not a chance of hitting a high-dollar card. The genie is already out of that bottle, it's never going back to the way it used to be.
Richard
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