Card Conditions

[dan5]

So I have a serious question.

Do people on this site not care about the condition of cards anymore?

I mean the value of the card is based on the condition so if you aren't telling the person you are trading with that the card has a messed up corner or a huge divot on the face of the card but you trade at full value, you're basically ripping them off.

This seems to be happening to me more and more on here and I'm starting to get to the point I no longer want to trade on this site anymore.

This has happened twice in the last week with 2 long time members of this site, so it's not like it's a new trader that doesn't know any better.

I guess I need to start asking for scans of every card and what the condition is before I commit to a trade.

It's just aggravating because most of what I trade for is going into my personal collection and some of these cards are higher valued cards.


I also don't understand how people can pay $100 for a box of cards but when it comes to shipping trades they have to cram 5-10 cards in a pwe because they can't afford to ship in a bubble mailer!! The same goes for autographs and game used cards. Trades like that should always be sent in bubble mailers.

I've also been seeing a lot of people stop using penny sleeves and just putting the card in a top loader. The card can still get damaged during shipping that way. You should always use penny sleeves!!

 

[robertd]

I have had the same experience as of late. I had one trader send me 15 (fifteen!) cards in a PWE. They were almost all damaged. These were just some Topps base cards for a collection I'm working on with my kid. I messaged the guy and never heard back. He's been on this site for years with tons of good trades.

Another trader put about ~10 cards in a team bag and put them in a padded envelope with two stamps on it. Without any top loaders or anything in the envelope the cards were sliding around inside the padded envelope and ended up with one corner damaged on all the cards. I messaged him also, and to his credit he was very apologetic and offered to make it right.

I've certainly made some mistakes over the years. I understand that things happen. But I hope that this serves as a reminder to the group that we shouldn't get too complacent with shipping.

 

[SymphonicMetal]

My experience has been exactly the opposite. All of the people I have trade with have done a fantastic job in safely packaging their cards.

Card condition is the reason I don't trade vintage online unless the other trader or I want something inexpensive or are OK with lesser condition. I realize we all grade cards differently so I don't trade vintage very often to avoid those potential conflicts. I expect cards from 1981 to present to be NM for the most part. We all miss flaws on cards we trade here and there so once in a while we all get (or give) a damaged card. But all in all I have been very fortunate to have no major issues on condition of cards I receive in 18 years of online trading.

 

[dan5]

My experience has been exactly the opposite. All of the people I have trade with have done a fantastic job in safely packaging their cards.

Card condition is the reason I don't trade vintage online unless the other trader or I want something inexpensive or are OK with lesser condition. I realize we all grade cards differently so I don't trade vintage very often to avoid those potential conflicts. I expect cards from 1981 to present to be NM for the most part. We all miss flaws on cards we trade here and there so once in a while we all get (or give) a damaged card. But all in all I have been very fortunate to have no major issues on condition of cards I receive in 18 years of online trading.

That's true with minor flaws but the ones I've got lately have been super obvious and easily seen with the naked eye. Also both cards are from 2020 products!!

I whole hardly agree with you on the vintage aspect. I don't really have vintage to trade but from time to time I'll trade for some as long as I'm provided with a pic of the front and back of the card.

 

[SymphonicMetal]

Speaking of condition of cards being mailed, I am mailing a PWE tomorrow which I rarely do. Most of my shipments are in boxes or padded envelopes. Is the best way to mail the card in a PWE to put it in a top loader and soft sleeve?

 

[anglinomics]

When I mail a card in a pwe, I always use a penny sleeve and a top loader, I never send a pwe without expressly stating that it is a pwe. Otherwise I would expect a bubble mailer. A trade that I sent lately in a pwe was damaged by the USPS even though I pay an extra 1 ounce stamp and marked it do not machine. The po doesn't give a darn about those warnings it seems. But the damaged pwe was only damaged to the envelope and not the cards, because I always tape the top loader to the inside of the envelope. And I will use a bubble mailer for more than 3 cards pretty much exclusively. As far as damaged cards, I know of one long time trader that sends ****** cards.

Another word on card storage, you should always store cards on the side up as opposed to the top up. Those 5000 count monster boxes are dangerous because the cards are stored top to bottom, which make the cards to bow. I don't collect any chrome because they curl up very easily. So use 800 count boxes or other sizes which store the card side up and down. And invest in those foam fillers to keep the cards erect, because loose cards sitting at an angle will also bow up.

And can we set the system so it doesn't terminate your login while your writing a simple reply.

 

[dan5]

Speaking of condition of cards being mailed, I am mailing a PWE tomorrow which I rarely do. Most of my shipments are in boxes or padded envelopes. Is the best way to mail the card in a PWE to put it in a top loader and soft sleeve?

Yes, definitely use a top loader. Make sure you pay the extra postage to send it non machinable as well. I always take pwe trades to the post office and do it that way. A lot of people on here just put 1 stamp on there and let it ride.

 

[SymphonicMetal]

Thanks for the help on the PWE mailings guys. I thought I had read about problems with these PWEs getting caught in a machine when there was a top loader in the envelope which is why I asked.

I also have the problem getting kicked off the site when posting or PMing a long message. On top of that once you get logged off you lose the text you already typed! Whet I stared doing is typing my message/post out in an email, copying it, logging on here and then pasting it to the board or PM.

 

[Rhubarb_Runner]

I believe the extra stamp is only required for extra ounce and is not required for non machinable. That said a card or two in a penny sleeve and top loader (and team bag) should be perfectly fine through a sorting machine if prepped properly. Always write "do not bend" or "non machinable" on the bottom of the envelope front, but add a strip of mailing tape along the bottom of the envelope folded around to the bottom the the back, so that the envelope won't crumple. And even two top loaders end-to-end in a business envelope work fine too, given proper postage for the weight.

 

[dan5]

I believe the extra stamp is only required for extra ounce and is not required for non machinable. That said a card or two in a penny sleeve and top loader (and team bag) should be perfectly fine through a sorting machine if prepped properly. Always write "do not bend" or "non machinable" on the bottom of the envelope front, but add a strip of mailing tape along the bottom of the envelope folded around to the bottom the the back, so that the envelope won't crumple. And even two top loaders end-to-end in a business envelope work fine too, given proper postage for the weight.

I take all my pwe trades to the post office and ask them to do them non machinable and they charge me $.70. You are also correct when you say 1-2 cards but a lot of people on this site are cramming 5-10 cards in a pwe and even game used cards. Those types of pwe's don't go though the machine very well and on a lot of occasions come out damaged.

I've even had some one send me $200 worth of cards in a pwe!!! Now that's just insane to take a chance like that. It's like no one cares anymore once the cards aren't "theirs" anymore.

 

[SymphonicMetal]

That $200 of cards in a PWE is pretty alarming to say the least!!!

I would say there is only one way to stop this from happening. Either you have to make the sender make good on the damaged cards or mark the trade negatively. I know many of us are reluctant to mark trades with anything less than straight 5s (as seen by the overwhelming number of 5.0 ratings on this site) but in the case of damaged cards you really have to do that if the other member does not make good. If other traders see ratings of less than 5.0 the offenders will realize he needs to change his shipping habits. When you start seeing 4.9 and 4.8s from traders, you'll tend to be more cautious.

 

[dan5]

That $200 of cards in a PWE is pretty alarming to say the least!!!

I would say there is only one way to stop this from happening. Either you have to make the sender make good on the damaged cards or mark the trade negatively. I know many of us are reluctant to mark trades with anything less than straight 5s (as seen by the overwhelming number of 5.0 ratings on this site) but in the case of damaged cards you really have to do that if the other member does not make good. If other traders see ratings of less than 5.0 the offenders will realize he needs to change his shipping habits. When you start seeing 4.9 and 4.8s from traders, you'll tend to be more cautious.

The problem with the rating system on this site is that some one like myself who has the amount of trades and feedback I do giving 1's doesn't even make a dent in a 5.0 rating. I could get all 1's on my next 10 trades and I would still have a 5.0 overall rating. The only people it affects are traders with less than 100 trades.

 

[metsman1986]

I will keep this short as I tend to lose my mind when it comes to this subject matter.......I try not to send PWE trade because over half of them never make it to their final destination......Last year I had 6 that didn't arrive.......As far as damaged cards being sent my way, it seems like folks don't care or are lackadaisical when it comes to storage and shipping, like someone already pointed out..........Most people on the bay are pretty aware it seems to me........Last note, the USPS in Memphis, TN do not give a crap about mail, PWE or BB mailer........More concerned about retirement than packages and letters.........

 

[akamikey2001]

Do people on this site not care about the condition of cards anymore?

There's a lot of excellent traders on this site but have ran into a few sending me damaged cards in bubble envelopes. On bigger trades (number of cards involved or bv wise) I usually ask about condition specially if they are newer. I inspect the condition of each card before listing it on my trade list. Nobody wants creased, bent or severe chipping on cards. Then reinspect cards before sending them out. On another site newer traders have actually sent me game-used by way of PWE (came creased and with money owed for postage), sent cards in mailer without sleeves or top loaders and even a creased card well protected.

 

[SymphonicMetal]

I try not to send PWE trade because over half of them never make it to their final destination......Last year I had 6 that didn't arrive......

Not something I wanted to read since I have a PWE coming in and one sent out this week! Hopefully they hav a better fate than yours did.

I am a big worrier when it comes to the cards I mail meeting condition expectations of the other trader. The one thing I dislike the most in online trading is packing the cards I mail. I am always worried they'll get damaged in transit so I take great pains in packing them so they won't get damaged...…….or at least lessening the chances of that happening. I actually enjoy hitting want lists but just dread the packaging task in my trades.

I will say I had an opposite experience recently where a card I received was much better than the scan showed. I traded for a 1979 Topps Tony Dorsett which is a card that I always seem to have problems getting. The one on the scan looked ex-ish but when I received it it was absolutely NM. I told the trader that his scan did not do the card justice so that was a nice surprise.

 

[anglinomics]

I take all my pwe trades to the post office and ask them to do them non machinable and they charge me $.70. You are also correct when you say 1-2 cards but a lot of people on this site are cramming 5-10 cards in a pwe and even game used cards. Those types of pwe's don't go though the machine very well and on a lot of occasions come out damaged.

I've even had some one send me $200 worth of cards in a pwe!!! Now that's just insane to take a chance like that. It's like no one cares anymore once the cards aren't "theirs" anymore.

I don't know what's legal unless you specify when ownership is taken. You could agree that ownership changes once the cards are mailed or once thee cards are received. On the Bench, I don't see any agreements like that mailed. If you don't specify when ownership transfers, it is my understanding (at least on The Bench) that ownership changes once the cards are received and examined.

 

[anglinomics]

The problem with the rating system on this site is that some one like myself who has the amount of trades and feedback I do giving 1's doesn't even make a dent in a 5.0 rating. I could get all 1's on my next 10 trades and I would still have a 5.0 overall rating. The only people it affects are traders with less than 100 trades.

The rating system doesn't use all of the trades that you ever made. It was posted years ago that only the last so many (can't remember the number) trades are used by the rating system. And I'm certain that the worst of those is thrown out. This might be in a sticky post if someone ever made it so.

 

[David K.]

The Trader Rating option is your opportunity to rate your trading partner's performance and his chance to rate yours. You are rated in four categories:

1) Packaging
2) Delivery Time
3) Communications
4) Condition (as described)

These categories will be averaged together to create an overal trader rating.

You can give your partner a rating between 1 and 5, with 5 being the best and 1 being horrible. The trader ratings are confidential, so no one will know what score you have given.

Trader ratings are based on a minimum of ten ratings. For every 30 ratings, the highiest and lowest scores will be dropped. The Bench's software automatically recalculates the trader ratings every evening.

A member's individual trader ratings appears in their profile page.

 

[jweech]

My two cents, for what it's worth.

I will send cards the way my trade partner prefers them sent. If a PWE works, then that is the way I'll go. If a bubbler is preferred, then a bubbler it is. In the 7+ years I've been on the site, I've had one guy screw me out of cards (no longer on the site), one box of damaged cards (they were freebies and I didn't pay postage so I'm in no position to complain) and one package I sent that disappeared only to reappear miraculously when I complained to my PO (and only because I had a tracking #). Bottom line, communication is key.