another positive , negative , or neutral question

cmcjr99

Active member
517
5.00 star(s)
this is becoming routine it seems...

so i won a card from a reputable seller a couple weeks ago....he had a feedback of just over 1000 , with 1 negative within the past year....he also had a return policy that offered a full refund (with buyer paying return shipping) for any item returned within 7 days....i felt fairly safe bidding on the card....

a few days pass and the card arrives (in an undamaged 44-cent PWE that i paid $2.00 for by the way)...i remove it from the top loader and immediately i see an issue...a crease...no , two...hmm..wait...make that EIGHT - yes i said EIGHT - separate and highly visible creases all on the card front...i immediately wrote the seller and told him of my intent to return the card....he wrote back and said he was sorry and that he'd send my refund as soon as he got the card back....

though it was sent via pwe , i still returned it in a bubble mailer with DC....with no further word from the seller after 6+ days , this sunday i checked the online tracking info and saw that the card was delivered before noon on wednesday the 27th....that was the third thing that irked me....

i waited one more day and wrote asking about my refund....3 hours later it finally arrived...BUT...yes , there's always a but....it was sent as a PAYMENT instead of as refund...what's the big deal you may ask....well , a REFUND doesn't have fees taken out....they are reversed so neither party pays them while a for a PAYMENT i (as the recipient) get hit with the fees....

by now i'm getting furious....crappy condition card , returned at a cost 4 times what he spent to send it in the first place , a 5 day delay in getting my refund , and then having to pay fees on top of that.....

so i ask...was i wrong to leave a negative ??


interrupt to add...i just got a pop up from my messenger saying i had incoming mail from the seller.......dang..and now a second....and a third....wow...i guess that negative got through to him....
 

Chavezforprez

Active member
1,488
5.00 star(s)
Hell yeah he deserves a Neg. Feedback. It's as if he didn't really care about the sell until you left him a Neg. Feeback.

Billy
 

Myerburg311

New member
1,449
4.90 star(s)
I had the same thing.. I got a triple jersey of Kazmir in a pwe with 5 creases in it.. I emailed the guy twice and he never responded.. in my second message I threatened with a negative.. He didn't respond so I left a negative.. My how quickly he returned my question after that saying he sent a refund, but nothing in paypal about a refund.. Says he called paypal about it, can I please remove it.. Two weeks later I don't have a refund and he still has a negative.. First negative I left in 5 years on ebay
 

cmcjr99

Active member
517
5.00 star(s)
here are the three messages i got from him (all while i was typing my post here) :


first -
Sorry, I will send you the .48 or whatever the difference is. I didn't know that it would charge you for the transfer

ok..not bad had he stopped there...

then came a 48 cent "gift" via paypal....


literally 2 minutes later came this :

That is absolutely unbelievable that you left a negative feedback. I have never issued a refund before on paypal and I did not know how they worked. I didn't realize that it was sent as a payment. I don't know if you sell on ebay but it is very unfair how buyers can destroy a seller's credibility over a simple mistake. I usually examine all of my cards before I ship them, but I am an extremely busy college student, and I may have been a bit hasty. It is nearly impossible to have negative feedbacks removed so thanks for screwing me big guy.



first bolded part is obvious....second bolded part just seems to be an excuse...still , when i read this and got the extra refund back i tried to respond with this :



i do sell on ebay....and that is exactly why i know how to issue a refund via pay pal (every pay pal transaction page has a refund link at the bottom)....

anyway , 5 things got to me in this case :
1) card listed as mint obviously was not...
2) a GU card shipped in a 44-cent PWE
3) to cover myself i had to pay 4 times that to have it returned with DC
4) though you said you'd issue the refund when it arrived , i waited 5 days to write and had to ask before it was issued
5) i had to eat fees out of it because it was sent as a payment...

hasty ? maybe if only 1 of the 5 issues actually took place....

i don't want any hard feelings here...if you request a revision/deletion of feedback , i'll do it...just go through the link on ebay and i'll see to it either late tonight or tomorrow evening...

here's a direct link to the ebay help pages telling you what you'll need to do...

http://pages.ebay.com/help/feedback/revision-request.html



while i was typing up reply , i got this , his 4th message :


Also, I am appalled that someone would react so hastily over a $4.35 purchase. I would have refunded you 10, 20, 30 dollars whatever you wanted in order to avoid a negative feedback. I was very cooperative and as I mentioned I am a college student and I do not currently live at the location that you would have sent the card to and my mother did not notify me that I had received a package in the mail. I was going to take care of the issue but I'm sorry to say that this transaction was not one of my top priorities at the time. Not that you probably care, but I am using the money that I make selling cards on ebay to fund a mission trip that I will make in a month (like I said more important issues). Nonetheless, I would gladly have refunded you the full amount, I just did not know how the process works. I could continue typing as I am pretty upset right now, but I'll leave it at this and send another thanks to you for hindering my ability to sell on ebay. Obviously this is an outlier on my record, as I have made over 1,500 transactions on ebay, and have had only 3 problems, as not all buyers are as uncooperative as you have been.



bolded a few more key points there....first he says he was very cooperative...if that's true , then how does he justify stating that my refund was a very low priority ? ....he told me to return the card but neglected to tell me he was not going to be at the address i had to ship it to ? ..a little irresponsible at the very least....claiming (for the second or third time that he did not understand how refunds work on pay pal yet has the nerve to say that i probably don't know how things work for sellers ??....i make sure that when i sell on a public website i know what i'm doing....he has over 1000 feedback (63 as a buyer and 1074 as a seller) and still does not know a very basic thing like how to issue a refund - when there is a link for that on EVERY paypal transaction page....that is inexcusable....and i was the uncooperative one ? i think i was the victim here....i spent money to get something and then spent more to return it just to get back the initial investment....even with him issuing the second partial refund i still am out the money it cost to ship an item out with DC when he only used a darned 44-cent PWE in the first place ???

anyway , i've added him to my blocked bidder list and i'll avoid all his future listings....i do apologize for yet another rambling rant , but this guy got under my skin....i really was prepared to revise my feedback , but his last message probably killed that notion....
 
Last edited:

Jeffo65

Moderator
1,541
5.00 star(s)
1) card listed as mint obviously was not...
2) a GU card shipped in a 44-cent PWE
3) to cover myself i had to pay 4 times that to have it returned with DC
4) though you said you'd issue the refund when it arrived , i waited 5 days to write and had to ask before it was issued
5) i had to eat fees out of it because it was sent as a payment...
1 - Maybe the card was mint before shipping
2 - I agree, it should have been packaged better
3 - You chose to return it in this method, so it is not the sellers fault (yes the seller could have offered to reimburse you)
4 - The refund should have been made sooner (possible that it was sent to his home address, not school address and someone did not tell him it had arrived)
5 - You should have rejected the refund "payment" and asked for it to be paid as a "refund"

Negative feedback? I don't know

Nuetral feedback? I don't know.
 

Droubaysports

New member
64
5.00 star(s)
Jeffo,
Here is where I disagree. It is the sellers responsibility to ensure safe delivery. Period, no ifs ands or buts and its the reason everything I ship goes out padded mailer/insured. So I charge a shade more for shipping than $2 (I charge actual shipping give or take some change). As for refunds? if I didnt pack it well enough and it is damaged I'll pay return shipping as well. Some do, some don't it's just my way.
 

Jeffo65

Moderator
1,541
5.00 star(s)
Droubaysports,

I agree with you. That is why in point #2 I stated that it should have been shipped in a better package. I also send everything in bubble mailers. That is the way I prefer to receive cards and choose to send them that way as well.

So I don't see what you are disagreeing with. I guess I am confused.
 

bigwallastyle

New member
1,987
5.00 star(s)
Definitely a negative. Ebay should be easy and with a little common sense, it is. When it gets to be this much of a pain over a $5 card, it defeats the purpose of buying on Ebay. Weeding sellers out who don't care, can't read, don't pay attention, don't know the refund process, whatever, is what we as buyers should do so no one else on the Bench has to repeat this ridiculous scenario.

Tom
 

mintman2

New member
133
5.00 star(s)
anyway , 5 things got to me in this case :
3) to cover myself i had to pay 4 times that to have it returned with DC
I agree with Jeffo65 on this one. How you decide to send it back isn't the seller's problem.

In the very rare case when I have to give someone a refund I always give a FULL refund, including s/h AND the return shipping cost except.........
I recently issued a refund for three cards and the guy sent them back to me priority with dc. I told him I would have paid for return shipping but I wasn't going to pay nearly $6, that was his problem.


btw - If this happens again save yourself all the headaches. Just file a dispute with paypal saying you never received the item. No dc for a pwe, case closed.
 

jaderock

New member
12
5.00 star(s)
Giving or receiving a negative on ebay is the hardest thing. Once it's done, it's done for the most part.

Everyone has a reason for doing it. I've had sellers refund my purchase as PAYMENT several times in the past. To say, "I didn't know" is like saying "I didn't know paypal took a cut when you pay via paypal" ... utter BS or stupidity.

That said, a negative (or neutral) really is a big pain...constant emails OR phone calls, threat of retailation (they buy your item and screw your feedback), karma, etc.
 

cmcjr99

Active member
517
5.00 star(s)
I agree with Jeffo65 on this one. How you decide to send it back isn't the seller's problem.

i beg to differ....to qualify for pay pal protection in the case of a returned item , the buyer must be able to provide "proof" the item was indeed returned...that mean one MUST return with DC to ensure he is covered in the event the seller decided to refund or claim the card was never returned....

(while the DC info really only proves that SOMETHING was delivered , it usually satisfies the requirements in the eyes of ebay/paypal but returning without DC is an automatic loss in any case)
 

cmcjr99

Active member
517
5.00 star(s)
1 - Maybe the card was mint before shipping
2 - I agree, it should have been packaged better
3 - You chose to return it in this method, so it is not the sellers fault (yes the seller could have offered to reimburse you)
4 - The refund should have been made sooner (possible that it was sent to his home address, not school address and someone did not tell him it had arrived)
5 - You should have rejected the refund "payment" and asked for it to be paid as a "refund"

Negative feedback? I don't know

Nuetral feedback? I don't know.

points 1 and 2 go hand in hand ....either the card wasn't mint despite his listing stating it was OR he was very careless by shipping a GU in a pwe.....

point 3 - already noted in my previous message - to cover oneself in a potential claim , one is required to provide proof of delivery ...that requires AT LEAST delivery confirmation which means a basic PWE isn't possible...

point 5 - i discovered his "refund" method after the fact...i made a payment on a batch of auctions...the payment cleaned out my balance and used funds from my bank account to complete the payment....after making the payment i checked out my transaction log and saw that instead of a refund that wold have been linked to the original transaction , he had instead sent a payment to me....by then the funds were gone (and sadly my bank account no longer had sufficient funds to "re-refund" him ....
 

basebal1fan

New member
544
5.00 star(s)
This is why GU cards should be shipped in a bubble mailer EVERY TIME! I've never gotten a jersey in a PWE and not had it creased. It happens every time and sellers should know not to do it. If he would have simply charged an extra $.50 for shipping and used a bubble mailer, he could have avoided the problem.
 

mintman2

New member
133
5.00 star(s)
i beg to differ....to qualify for pay pal protection in the case of a returned item , the buyer must be able to provide "proof" the item was indeed returned...that mean one MUST return with DC to ensure he is covered in the event the seller decided to refund or claim the card was never returned....

(while the DC info really only proves that SOMETHING was delivered , it usually satisfies the requirements in the eyes of ebay/paypal but returning without DC is an automatic loss in any case)
You're 100% correct that the buyer must get dc to protect himself BUT all he had to do, in my case, was put the cards back in the bubble mailer I sent them in and if he printed his postage thru paypal, even being in a team bag, in three toploads individually taped, the postage would have been what? $1.60? $1.70? Sorry, but I'm NOT going to pay for priority mail. I mean c'mon now, what if he decided to send overnight express ? Should I be expected to pay for that ? NOT !
 

cmcjr99

Active member
517
5.00 star(s)
You're 100% correct that the buyer must get dc to protect himself BUT all he had to do, in my case, was put the cards back in the bubble mailer I sent them in and if he printed his postage thru paypal, even being in a team bag, in three toploads individually taped, the postage would have been what? $1.60? $1.70? Sorry, but I'm NOT going to pay for priority mail. I mean c'mon now, what if he decided to send overnight express ? Should I be expected to pay for that ? NOT !

the part i objected to was when both you and jeffo noted that i didn't HAVE to return the card the way i did but instead i CHOSE that method so shouldn't complain about the expense....i never suggested that the return be made via priority mail - that would be far too much....but i did know that to be covered in any ebay/paypal claim , i had to have my proof of delivery in the form of that DC number - and THAT necessitated the use of a bubble mailer and parcel shipping.....

i was a bit miffed that the seller charged $2.00 for shipping then the card arrived (damaged) in a PWE with a single 44-cent stamp on it....his total cost for postage + supplies came to less than 60 cents ....a 2-ounce first class parcel (bubble mailer) with pay pal label which includes DC costs 1.58 to ship (plus roughly 20-30 cents worth of supplies since the card was returned in the same top order the seller used) ....that means just to return the card to get my bid plus the shipping i paid back , i ended up spending more than 3 times what he did to ship it to me in the first place...
 

mintman2

New member
133
5.00 star(s)
Well, whatever you're beef is with me, I still think you should have just told paypal you didn't receive the card. No return shipping, no hassling with the seller. DONE DEAL !
 

mintman2

New member
133
5.00 star(s)
I was going to say that I couldn't believe you're spending this much time and energy on a $5 card but then I realized SO AM I ! LOL
 

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