book value versus sale value...help me understand please!

[NEPatriotsFan]

Ive been online trading for a long time, and running into a situation I dont know quite how to handle. As we all know the sale price of a card can vary widely versus the book value of a particular card. The issue I am having is when I am trading a card that is selling for above book value for a card or cards that is selling for substantially below book value. I try to introduce SV as an alternative to valuing the trade vs book value and the other trader doesnt understand...they keep telling me its book value or no deal. But in my opinion if the sale values are the same, then its an even swap, even the BV are widely different. Not sure why that is a foreign concept as at some point we all had to buy some of the cards we have for cash money. So I guess the question is how do I balance the scales? On a $200 trade, the book values could be even, but one side could be trading $150 sale value of cards and the other side could be trading $75 worth of SV cards. Any thoughts or suggestions? thanks rich

 

[cornwellfamily]

Rich, totally understand and something we have even discussed. As a dealer, the thought of book value is out the door. Everyone compares cards to comps on the sale sites. Unfortunately sales can be all over the place. I try to average sales out between 3 and 5 sales. I have traded both ways but have more luck at sale value.it is hard to trade for a card at a high book value to find out that my cards were actually worth more on the open market. It basically comes down to are you a collector or a salesman and how much the card means to you.

 

[jsrgale]

I'm a sales value fan as well. If nothing else it is a real world current value, not something in a guide. Also don't have to subscribe to price guides.

 

[rotorob]

Ive been online trading for a long time, and running into a situation I dont know quite how to handle. As we all know the sale price of a card can vary widely versus the book value of a particular card. The issue I am having is when I am trading a card that is selling for above book value for a card or cards that is selling for substantially below book value. I try to introduce SV as an alternative to valuing the trade vs book value and the other trader doesnt understand...they keep telling me its book value or no deal. But in my opinion if the sale values are the same, then its an even swap, even the BV are widely different. Not sure why that is a foreign concept as at some point we all had to buy some of the cards we have for cash money. So I guess the question is how do I balance the scales? On a $200 trade, the book values could be even, but one side could be trading $150 sale value of cards and the other side could be trading $75 worth of SV cards. Any thoughts or suggestions? thanks rich

Rich -

One of the great questions of online trading. For low dollar cards and commons, BV seems to be the quickest way to get a deal done. There are some traders that are "married" to BV and state so plainly. In those cases, I just politely decline the trade as my disclaimer is always, "I have to want the card(s) you're offering more than what I already have". Some folks are open to a little back and forth, but that can be difficult if the card has a wide range of sale prices. If it is what someone is asking for they want to go by the lowest completed price, if it is what they have they want to go by the highest. BV does prevent that scenario, but still can be ineffective.

Don't think I actually answered your question, just provided some commentary, lol. It just seems that both traders should like the deal and mutually agree upon the method of valuation.

Not sure if the cleared or muddied the issue...

 

[NEPatriotsFan]

Rich -

One of the great questions of online trading. For low dollar cards and commons, BV seems to be the quickest way to get a deal done. There are some traders that are "married" to BV and state so plainly. In those cases, I just politely decline the trade as my disclaimer is always, "I have to want the card(s) you're offering more than what I already have". Some folks are open to a little back and forth, but that can be difficult if the card has a wide range of sale prices. If it is what someone is asking for they want to go by the lowest completed price, if it is what they have they want to go by the highest. BV does prevent that scenario, but still can be ineffective.

Don't think I actually answered your question, just provided some commentary, lol. It just seems that both traders should like the deal and mutually agree upon the method of valuation.

Not sure if the cleared or muddied the issue...

I think you hit the nail on the head...I have to want what you are offering me more than what I have...just because something is listed on my trade page doesnt mean ill trade it for whatever you want to send me...I am usually very easy to trade with, but agree what you said 100% thanks

 

[SymphonicMetal]

Sales values are fine for graded cards and whatever ultra modern cards are currently hot but that method is useless for raw cards. Every raw card is different so a guide is necessary to at least get started in determining value and then base the trade or sales value on condition. For instance, I don't see where getting a sales value on a raw Joe Montana RC would do any good since the raw condition can range from crap to near perfect. I always start with the Beckett high book and value it at that or lower as condition warrants. If I feel a card would grade higher than high book, I just won't offer it since I might be overgrading it and I've heard enough "possible PSA 10" more times than I care to count..

 

[rnocards]

I try not to rely much on book value. I mostly rely on market sales value, especially on cards sold at auctions. Much more reliable when you have a bunch of people bidding on a card to determine value rather than the book value listed on a guide.

 

[Habsfan6]

Agree with you love sale value and when I first joined that’s what I used but some traders don’t really like it still wondering why seems more practical unless it’s Base for Base then you should use BV

 

[jmintz]

Out of the three sites I trade online from, this one is the only one I see book value being used with any degree of frequency...it's fairly antiquated. I typically also use sale value, but if there's an outlier (way higher or lower than any other sale), I toss it aside when looking at comps and averaging them (I also usually use the last five sales). For those that don't know, 130point.com actually still shows the "best offer" price that eBay removed access to.

At the end of the day, if the trader has something I really want but is stuck on book value, I won't walk away. But, those traders are typically the ones that are difficult to deal with, and get hung up on the trade not being a dead-even, penny for penny trade.

 

[PRosefan1]

I have traded only by BV in the past. I grew up with beckett long before ebay. Have been informed that I need to get with the times. So grudgingly I have started trying to trade by SV. Its tough trading a 200 bv card for a 100 bv card. I realize the sv may be the same but it messes with my head. Like many older people, change is hard for me but Im trying.

 

[89Giants]

It's always good to remember when someone quotes beckett values that's its a price "guide", so there will be times it's not accurate. In the end if the trader isn't willing to budge then just agree to disagree and politely pass.

 

[NEPatriotsFan]

I have traded only by BV in the past. I grew up with beckett long before ebay. Have been informed that I need to get with the times. So grudgingly I have started trying to trade by SV. Its tough trading a 200 bv card for a 100 bv card. I realize the sv may be the same but it messes with my head. Like many older people, change is hard for me but Im trying.

Dave, I hear you, but my only retort is you cant spend book value. I agree its difficult to do that...

 

[SymphonicMetal]

I have traded only by BV in the past. I grew up with beckett long before ebay. Have been informed that I need to get with the times. So grudgingly I have started trying to trade by SV. Its tough trading a 200 bv card for a 100 bv card. I realize the sv may be the same but it messes with my head. Like many older people, change is hard for me but Im trying.

Thinking back on our trade last Summer, I cannot think of any other way we could have done that if not by BV. All the cards were raw and the Mariano RC and the '71 Brooks were called high book and the 1961 Topps AL home run leaders was discounted some from high book due to some condition issues. I can't see where SV would have aided us at all because like snowflakes, no two raw cards are the same.

 

[Scobes]

BV is the only way to trade cards that are low-end (roughly BV $25 or less). If you have nicer cards, I can understand using SV to trade, but I don't think it's necessary - really only if it is a hot card or too rare to get consistent BV. BV is not obsolete at all - it just depends on what you are trading. I feel that collectors use BV and sellers/flippers/investors use SV. Beckett isn't perfect, but it's better than the wild west of SV.

Scobes

 

[crazyderik]

I use BV a lot....but I also do a lot of sets and low end trades. I have no problem if someone rolls out a better card and needs a sale value placed on it. I get it. I also have a few cards I am hesitant to trade due to SV.

BV is supposed to be somewhat based on sales. It would be interesting to see what formulas they are using. Some are ridiculous

 

[jmintz]

BV is supposed to be somewhat based on sales. It would be interesting to see what formulas they are using. Some are ridiculous

If I had to guess, price adjustments are based on flat percentages factoring in the player and the set...meaning they may raise all Ohtani prices X% and then bump an extra X% for Topps Chrome, X% for Topps flagship, etc. etc.

It's a flawed system, because you've got a specific starting point you're working from. I imagine there are some cards (especially higher-end sets) where they actually do market research, but for the most part, I'm guessing once the initial prices are set there's no turning back and they're unrealistic.

 

[t.rooster]

For me, SV are so subjective, BV takes that subjectivity away... SV fluctuate so wildly and if you wait long enough SV tend to go down based on how the player has performed at that moment. I like BV because it's set, however "antiquated" that may seem it isn't based on how much someone is willing to pay at that moment.

 

[jmintz]

For me, SV are so subjective, BV takes that subjectivity away... SV fluctuate so wildly and if you wait long enough SV tend to go down based on how the player has performed at that moment. I like BV because it's set, however "antiquated" that may seem it isn't based on how much someone is willing to pay at that moment.

Correct, but if BV was doing its job, it should also go up and down based on how a player performs. It often doesn't, which is its inherent problem.

I mainly collect basketball, and there are tons of cards (for example - random RC autos from 2013) that are still listed around $10 - $20 - cards you can find in the dollar bin at a show. That's the problem with it. SV is a true picture of the market at the time, like the stock market. BV has so much stuff that probably never gets touched, and thus is over-inflated. They do a decent enough job, I imagine, of adjusting hot players, but there is too much stuff overvalued because it's not worth the time for them to adjust (or they just don't have the manpower to do so).

The ONLY advantage BV has is ease of use - it takes no effort to price a card. But 99% of the time it's no way indicative of the real-time value.

 

[bfd13]

It is funny how some people on trade sites swear by SV, until you have a card that is selling way above book value. Then they become people who strictly follow book value.

 

[rlschles]

I don't do modern, so I can't speak to that. For vintage, I find that as long as the same guide is used for both ends of a trade, it should work out. If the trade is based on Beckett hi or Beckett lo or PSA Ex5 on both sides of the trade, it should end up being fair. Where it's unequal is when separate guides are used to judge value.

One thing I have noticed is that BV of '70s cards is consistently lower than what you can get at online auction. I'll be chasing a $20 card of a hof player in NM and it ends up going for 50, 60 or sometimes even three figures. And there are some common cards whose special interest the guides just don't take into account - like the Claude Raymond fly down, or Glenn Burke rc, or the '75 mvps, to name a few.