JSA taught me a lesson about buying IP autos today

[Soxfan33]

Hey everyone,

I bought the card below for $10.59 dlvd on eBay as a BIN listing. I asked the seller about a COA, and he told me that he got the card from another dealer who said Musial signed it at a local show.

The Masterpieces products are by far my favorite ever, as most of you know. I was excited to get it in the mail and to send my card away to get authenticated and encased for the first time ever. I figured $50 for the card and the shipping & JSA charges isn't bad for a Musial Masterpieces auto.

Well, now I know that I paid $50 for nothing. I guess that's a risk I took and I have to live with it, but I will never do that again.

I had compared it to several Musial autos, and thought that it looked legit, but I was wrong. The seller has perfect feedback, so I don't think he's a dirt bag. But I'm pretty bummed about the whole thing. Just thought I'd share.

Maybe it wasn't the smartest purchase, but I thought I'd give it a shot. I got burned. I sent the seller an email to let him know that it was a fake, and look forward to his response.

John

 

[RustyGreerFan]

Thanks for the lesson and the letter you received. I'm sorry my education was out of your pocket, but it's appreciated.

 

[DMS6391]

Ouch. I know that sucks. I'm always weary of buying IP autos like that. Sorry it had to happen to you...

 

[David K.]

Thanks for the information...I know that Musial auto has been getting terrible as he getting up there age wise. Does the COA indicate when it was signed? Best regards, David

 

[mrmopar]

That is assuming JSA is correct. They make mistakes too. I think we put a little too much stock in authenticators myself. That letter is crap too. They say your autograph may include one or many of the following? They can't take the time to say what it is they used to determine the card MAY be unauthentic and this was for a fee?

Am I understanding that you paid almost $40 for that? I'd say JSA ripped you off more than the seller of the card!

 

[mindbinge]

First thing I thought was that for what it cost for them to refuse it, they could have at least given you the reason why and not some generic crap form letter. You should send it in to PSA on the $15 deal they have right now and see what happens.

 

[Tim Carroll]

One thing that stood out to me immediately: Musial has been in declining health for a few years now. I don't recall anything he has signed in the last 2-3 years looking that "clean".........

Example: The following link is for a 2008 Upper Deck Musial AUTO (on sticker).

http://cgi.ebay.com/2008-UPPER-DECK...d=ViewItem&pt=US_Baseball&hash=item2c55e19ea7

Even under the assumption that the sticker was signed in 2008 and not earlier - look at how rough the auto is. Sorry, but no way you will ever find a 2008 Musial AUTO on-card that looks as good as the auto you have. JSA hit it on the head.


Tim

 

[7guns]

Here is mine I just got back in the last month sent TTM the coa has a sticker and so does the back sorry to hear about your luck.

 

[Tankp]

I got one also. Didn't JSA it but know when I got the card it was
not authentic. I have a Mantle I am going to JSA next month. They
will be in my state so nopaying shiping or insurance. Just to vairfy it is a
real autograph. Sorry to hear about your plight.

 

[NYY1]

That is assuming JSA is correct. They make mistakes too. I think we put a little too much stock in authenticators myself. That letter is crap too. They say your autograph may include one or many of the following? They can't take the time to say what it is they used to determine the card MAY be unauthentic and this was for a fee?

Am I understanding that you paid almost $40 for that? I'd say JSA ripped you off more than the seller of the card!

There's a video out there and I was trying to find it last night to no avail about JSA authenticating autographs. It was a news piece from a few years ago and the reporter went to a show where someone was signing and you could have your autograph authenticated by JSA at the same time. Well, the reporter went up, got their picture autographed and then grabbed another picture, forged an auto and got that one authenticated to be real.

After seeing that video, I don't trust JSA at all.

 

[mrmopar]

Was that the Sal Bando video?

I watched that one and anyone who holds a lot of stock in grading and authenticating companies needs to watch it!

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...?action=view&current=1119FakeAutographs11.flv

Now consider that Bando was appearing at the show and that it may appear as this was a set-up, an entrapment if you will, given that Bando was there and who would bring a fake to have authenticated anyway? However it proves beyond doubt that these companies can and DO make mistakes. Assumptions are made! It also shows you that for your hard earned money, you are trusting these guys to know their stuff and NOT make assumptions!

In this case, it would have made more sense for JSA to be sitting with Bando as he signed to authenticate the signatures. Anything brought in after the fact should have been treated differently. Honest mistake? Probably. Will they make a mistake on your item? Possibly. Do you want to pay them to make those mistakes? Not likely!

I probably have some fakes in my collection, some I may have thought were real myself, but I only have myself to blame. I will never send anything off to be verified, nor will the fact that it is verified sway my decision to buy nor will it allow me to let me guard down or pay more because of it. KNOW YOUR GAME OR IT WILL COST YOU.

 

[jaderock]

Hey everyone,

I bought the card below for $10.59 dlvd on eBay as a BIN listing. I asked the seller about a COA, and he told me that he got the card from another dealer who said Musial signed it at a local show.

No seller ever says they got it themselves...it's always "from a reputable dealer" blah blah blah....TTM/IP autos can be fun, but forgeries abound everywhere on EVERY PLAYER...very sad.

Regarding the JSA letter...very disappointed that it's a form letter versus giving the "actual" reason.

 

[Kekamba]

I have to agree with mrmopar. I dont have much auto's in my personal collection at this time I have some ttm stuff from the Reds, and I bought a few off ebay from the 1990 Wire to Wire team as well as from other benchies back before I disappeared several years ago. But then there is my gym auto peice. A mini helmet signed by one of the most feared linebackers of my day. Former Pittsburgh Steelers/Carolina Panther Greg Lloyd, it came with a little peice of paper claiming to be a COA. But I have no clue what happened to it. When I picked it up some 10 years ago, I compaired the signature to other items listed on ebay and it looked as good as everything else so I bought it. Got it home slapped it in a cube and every September it gets placed on or beside the tv untill the end of the season. I really think auto's unless bought to try to flip should be left in the buyers hands to decide if it is real or fake. But to each their own.

 

[GraphGrabber]

wondering if your thinking of TTMing him, sent him a card that he sent back signed along with his price list and LOA. Not sure why he sent me the price list when he signed it for free though?? I know his health is declining but worth a shot??

 

[7guns]

My poster above was TTM and no fee,So it may be wort a shot.

 

[Soxfan33]

Thanks everyone! Like I said, I've learned a lot from this. I just got the following response from the seller. They have 100% feedback in almost 3,000 transactions, so I don't suspect that they knew it was fake:

"JOHN i am so sorry to here that because i was at the show when Stan Musial was signing and i purchased the card from the people that promotes the show and they got alot of items signed by him and were selling them at the same show.I don't know why or how the auto is not authentic.How can someone sell fake autographs at the same show the person is signing at? I am so sorry and embarrased because i sold it to you and that is my reputation now not the guy that sold it to me.i can give you a refund on the auction and please understand i will do everything i can to find the same promotor so i can copy this email and force him to do the same for me or i will file a compliant with the police.I will send the refund once i here back from you.Again i am very sorry for this mistake i have made and i will make sure this A-hole pays for it."

 

[valediction]

Was that the Sal Bando video?

I watched that one and anyone who holds a lot of stock in grading and authenticating companies needs to watch it!

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...?action=view&current=1119FakeAutographs11.flv

Now consider that Bando was appearing at the show and that it may appear as this was a set-up, an entrapment if you will, given that Bando was there and who would bring a fake to have authenticated anyway? However it proves beyond doubt that these companies can and DO make mistakes. Assumptions are made! It also shows you that for your hard earned money, you are trusting these guys to know their stuff and NOT make assumptions!

In this case, it would have made more sense for JSA to be sitting with Bando as he signed to authenticate the signatures. Anything brought in after the fact should have been treated differently. Honest mistake? Probably. Will they make a mistake on your item? Possibly. Do you want to pay them to make those mistakes? Not likely!

I probably have some fakes in my collection, some I may have thought were real myself, but I only have myself to blame. I will never send anything off to be verified, nor will the fact that it is verified sway my decision to buy nor will it allow me to let me guard down or pay more because of it. KNOW YOUR GAME OR IT WILL COST YOU.

Couldn't have said it better. I have a tough time sending things in for authentication. Mostly because a) I'm not planning to sell them, b) the cost is usually prohibitive ($20-35 plus the cost of the item, plus shipping when I can get a card/item already slabbed by them for the same price, and c) if it IS a fake, now I'm out $35-$50 instead of $10-15. Keep in mind my autos are generally in the $2-40 range, and while I know there are a ton of forgeries out there, I'm not paying $20+ to have a Dick Calmus or George Mitterwald autograph authenticated.