Paypal Gift

[valediction]

Does anyone here have the ability to take credit cards like a store/retailer does? If so, perhaps they could share the costs to be able to do this. It costs money to be able to process credit card payments, but in turn you are opening your business to a much wider base of customers. Cash customers are a dying breed. In comparison, paypal may be close in that cost category, but it's a heck of a lot more convenient.

Is not having to wait for a mailed payment, not risking that bounced check, not having to cash checks/MOs or other payment issues of the past worth the fees? Sure, electronic payments have their own issues and risks as well, but imagine the drop in sales if you are one of the few that doesn't use paypal these days.

theplasticman hit it on the head. It seems many collector/sellers are kinda cheap when it comes to things like fees, mailing costs, etc when selling. They want to do business, but they want the buyer to cover all of their costs! I have found this especially true on ebay quite a bit. Sellers will explain their fee schedules, citing the need to cover their costs for fees, mailers, postage and even things like time to stand at the post office and gas to drive there! If it is that bad...STOP selling! If selling was an exercise in pure profit, then why would any businesses fail? Duh..they fail because there ARE costs involved in business!!

People on both sides of the transaction are cheap. That's a big part of the 'problem'. The sellers are trying to get as much as they can, the buyers are trying to get it for as little as possible. Sellers are trying to get back some of what they feel they are losing in the ebay/paypal setup.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1990-LEAF-25-GR...ZViewItemQQptZUS_Baseball?hash=item439c260dbd

Look at the auction here. If this is a part time seller, look at the costs. 15 cent listing fee, 11 cents final value fee, 34 cents paypal fees is 60 cents. Last card I mailed in a PWE was 88 cents, that's $1.48 in expenses to sell a card for $1.24. A few years ago I paid $9.59 shipped for the same card. You can't really build those costs into your price like you can in a store. Starting it at $1.99 to give you a 51 cent profit adds another 20 cents to the expenses, making it a 31 cent profit if it even would have gotten a bid at that level.

 

[mintman2]

My biggest gripe with paypal/ebay is that paypal now requires that buyers pay with paypal... and well both are owned by the same people... so why does each have to tack on fees for the ebay purchase and then the paypal purchase... doesn't seem fair to me... so I do not feel bad at all for using paypal gift, though I am stopping now seeing I do not want my account locked.

AGREE 100%

Ebay upped their fisrt tier fees ($25 and under) from 5.25% to 8.75% and told me I should be grateful since they were now giving me "FREE" gallery. I never used gallery ! Then they cancel all my auctions where I said I would accept cash, checks or money orders IN ADDITION to paypal. So, in addition to ebay and paypal fees I MUST send cards in a bubble mailer so I can get DC which I MUST if I want to be protected from the buyer (which you're really not anyway).

Ebay doubles my fees, I'm forced to spend MUCH more money on supplies and MUCH more money on postage. They found a way to take a HUGE chunk of my profits and split it up between ebay/paypal and the usps.

And I'm supposed to feel like I'm ripping them off ??
I'd love to go back to charging 75cents-$1.00 for s/h in a pwe and have the profits go into my pocket instead of theirs ! Who cares if I have to wait a week to get my money ? At least it's still MINE !

And don't forget that a tremendous amount of paypal transactions are simply paypal account to paypal account transfers. Probably costs them something like a hundredth of a cent to do. I ask you all........Who's the effing thieves ?

 

[ragtop12]

AGREE 100%

Ebay upped their fisrt tier fees ($25 and under) from 5.25% to 8.75% and told me I should be grateful since they were now giving me "FREE" gallery. I never used gallery ! Then they cancel all my auctions where I said I would accept cash, checks or money orders IN ADDITION to paypal. So, in addition to ebay and paypal fees I MUST send cards in a bubble mailer so I can get DC which I MUST if I want to be protected from the buyer (which you're really not anyway).

Ebay doubles my fees, I'm forced to spend MUCH more money on supplies and MUCH more money on postage. They found a way to take a HUGE chunk of my profits and split it up between ebay/paypal and the usps.

And I'm supposed to feel like I'm ripping them off ??
I'd love to go back to charging 75cents-$1.00 for s/h in a pwe and have the profits go into my pocket instead of theirs ! Who cares if I have to wait a week to get my money ? At least it's still MINE !

And don't forget that a tremendous amount of paypal transactions are simply paypal account to paypal account transfers. Probably costs them something like a hundredth of a cent to do. I ask you all........Who's the effing thieves ?

Well said

 

[lep1010]

AGREE 100%

Ebay upped their fisrt tier fees ($25 and under) from 5.25% to 8.75% and told me I should be grateful since they were now giving me "FREE" gallery. I never used gallery ! Then they cancel all my auctions where I said I would accept cash, checks or money orders IN ADDITION to paypal. So, in addition to ebay and paypal fees I MUST send cards in a bubble mailer so I can get DC which I MUST if I want to be protected from the buyer (which you're really not anyway).

Ebay doubles my fees, I'm forced to spend MUCH more money on supplies and MUCH more money on postage. They found a way to take a HUGE chunk of my profits and split it up between ebay/paypal and the usps.

And I'm supposed to feel like I'm ripping them off ??
I'd love to go back to charging 75cents-$1.00 for s/h in a pwe and have the profits go into my pocket instead of theirs ! Who cares if I have to wait a week to get my money ? At least it's still MINE !

And don't forget that a tremendous amount of paypal transactions are simply paypal account to paypal account transfers. Probably costs them something like a hundredth of a cent to do. I ask you all........Who's the effing thieves ?

I'm in total agreement ......... I have been recently forced to sell off a good portion of what I own (my fault that this happened, so no excuses to be given) .... aside from it obviously being a buyer's market the fees are killer!!! If many of you seen what I have paid in fees/shipping over the last month, well all I can say is ...... now I obviously cant/wont ask for paypal 'gift' on my auctions but on a site that I am 'friends' with many that I deal with and TRUST ... why not???? ... if both agree, than I see no harm - if ya dont wanna use it, than dont -

 

[premium1981]

Ebay and paypal like to rob you, so why not rob them back. Their fees are outrageous. There is no wonder people try to work around the system. Paying for a service is one thing. But when a service happens to be a monopoly, and they continue to raise fees, then I say go for it. Beat the system if you can. And you can't use the arguement "sell somewhere else". Ebay is THE auction site, and they know it. They are abusing their clients with their fee hikes. I'm sure I am not the only one, but it gets old after a while getting robbed over and over by companies that are only interested in their bottom line.

 

[clinton]

How does Ebay or Paypal rob anybody? They list the fees up front. You know what you have to pay for going in.

Fact: You DONT have to use Paypal to sell on Ebay.

Ebay allows the seller to accept several other forms of electronic payments. Most sellers use Paypal due to being familar with it. Again, sellers CHOICE. Dont blame Ebay.

Set yourself up to accept direct CC payments and let me know how much easier that is and how much $$ you save.

Ebay/Paypal is a business. They are here to make money. Want to play in their yard? You play by their rules. Easy enough.


clinton

 

[premium1981]

How does Ebay or Paypal rob anybody? They list the fees up front. You know what you have to pay for going in.

Ok, take the fees out of the mix for a minute. What about the honest sellers who get ripped off due to EBAY and PAYPAL siding with the buyer even if you follow their rules? If thats not stealing money from my pocket I dont know what is. Maybe it hasnt happened to you yet, but if you sell enough it will.

Example.....

I sold a card last year for $150ish. I get paid, and promptly ship USPS with insurance and DC. The guy files a claim. No problem right? So I reply to the claim and attach all my necessary info. I have my original PO receipt, my DC number, my insurance number, as well as a print out from my post office stating that it had been delivered. So I had 4 proofs of shipment/delivery. They still sided with the buyer. I appealed, and they still sided with the buyer. I get told that there is nothing I can do and I am out $150 AND the card.

So yes, ebay and paypal do ROB people of their money. Those "fees" are suppose to be including seller protection. If they are not providing that protection then they are stealing your money.

And just as an FYI, the above example was not a one time thing. I have NEVER won a claim where the buyer claims they did not get their package. They have sided with the buyer every time, even though I have had proof every time. I have 1000+ powerseller feedback on ebay with 100% of it positive. So it has nothing to do with them looking into my "reputation" either.

So anyway, after saying all of that, you should be able to see why people may want to get a few pennies back. If you aren't able to see that then it just means you have been lucky so far. Sell on ebay long enough and you will get screwed over too. When it happens, I doubt you will be saying its "easy enough" anymore.

 

[clinton]

Now your complaining about two different things here. The below post was you complaining about the fees as Ebay/Paypal as a monopoly. Its pretty easy to unraval that argument with simply showing that you dont have to use paypal.

Ebay and paypal like to rob you, so why not rob them back. Their fees are outrageous. There is no wonder people try to work around the system. Paying for a service is one thing. But when a service happens to be a monopoly, and they continue to raise fees, then I say go for it. Beat the system if you can. And you can't use the arguement "sell somewhere else". Ebay is THE auction site, and they know it. They are abusing their clients with their fee hikes. I'm sure I am not the only one, but it gets old after a while getting robbed over and over by companies that are only interested in their bottom line.

Now your next post is complaining about how Paypal did you wrong on several disputes. Now, its not my place to say you filed your dispute wrong, but I have won 3 disputes, 1 as a seller, 2 as a buyer. So your argument is with Paypal, right? Again, you dont have to use it.
After your first dispute loss why did you keep with the Ebay/Paypal combo? Because you know that its still the best combo going. You dont have to use it, you choose to.

Thats the point Im trying to make here. Lots of users use the monopoly card as a complaint. Evil Ebay/Paypal "makes" us use them. Not really. They are just the better mousetrap, even with an occasional hicup.

clinton

 

[premium1981]

Now your complaining about two different things here. The below post was you complaining about the fees as Ebay/Paypal as a monopoly.

No, I am complaining about the same thing. As I mentioned above, part of the "fees" is seller protection. If there is not protection, then the fees should be reduced. It all fits together. They know that they can keep increasing fees because there is no other auction site like it on the web. One would think that with increased fees there would be increased site optimaztions and more seller protection, not less. But no, fees keep going up and everything else remains the same.

Now your next post is complaining about how Paypal did you wrong on several disputes. Now, its not my place to say you filed your dispute wrong, but I have won 3 disputes, 1 as a seller, 2 as a buyer. So your argument is with Paypal, right? Again, you dont have to use it.

If you want any customers, then yes, you do have to use it. Any half way smart person knows that if you removed the paypal payment option you would get a fraction of the business (if any at all). So yes, if you want customers, you do have to use paypal. Thats just the way it is.

After your first dispute loss why did you keep with the Ebay/Paypal combo? Because you know that its still the best combo going. You dont have to use it, you choose to.

You are right, it is the best combo. That is why I, as well as millions others, use it. I fail to see how that gives them the right to suck every penny they can from you.

Thats the point Im trying to make here. Lots of users use the monopoly card as a complaint. Evil Ebay/Paypal "makes" us use them. Not really.

Yes really, I believe that is what people call a monopoly. Someone who has the market cornered and you have no choice to use them unless you use nothing at all.




Liking ebay/paypal is fine. Your arguements do not hold water though.

 

[clinton]

I can just keep saying the same thing over and over, and in your reply you can just keep proving my point.

You feel that because the Ebay/Paypal combo is the best, and because its the combo YOU choose to use, that it should work/cost exactly the way you want it to.

I'll say it again. ITS NOT A MONOPOLY. The market is not cornered. There are several sites/payment option combos out there. Just because the one you want to use, the one that gives you the best chance to maximize your profits, costs more, (hm, go figure?), you feel like you should get to complain about the fees.

Makes no sense to me.

Done with this.

 

[ragtop12]

I can just keep saying the same thing over and over, and in your reply you can just keep proving my point.

You feel that because the Ebay/Paypal combo is the best, and because its the combo YOU choose to use, that it should work/cost exactly the way you want it to.

I'll say it again. ITS NOT A MONOPOLY. The market is not cornered. There are several sites/payment option combos out there. Just because the one you want to use, the one that gives you the best chance to maximize your profits, costs more, (hm, go figure?), you feel like you should get to complain about the fees.

Makes no sense to me.

Done with this.

Several auction sites?? Ebay kncoked out the other top auction sites for cards (yahoo and bidville). what other ones are there? I'd like to know to try and find cards I need.

 

[clinton]

Several auction sites?? Ebay kncoked out the other top auction sites for cards (yahoo and bidville). what other ones are there? I'd like to know to try and find cards I need.

Yes, those sites are gone, and yes, you could tie it directly to ebay. I know that sportlots, and sportsbuy both offer auction formats. There are others, just google it. They dont seem to get much traffic, and I wouldnt try to move any of my stuff there, but the bottom line is, you do have other options to auction off your cards. You might not use them but they are out there. Again, dismissing the monopoly argument.

 

[lep1010]

Yes, those sites are gone, and yes, you could tie it directly to ebay. I know that sportlots, and sportsbuy both offer auction formats. There are others, just google it. They dont seem to get much traffic, and I wouldnt try to move any of my stuff there, but the bottom line is, you do have other options to auction off your cards. You might not use them but they are out there. Again, dismissing the monopoly argument.

ok, not a monopoly in the true form of the word, but it is clearly understood that if ya want top $$ for what your selling than there truely is only one option ... the one that bleeds ya dry ... WHY? because they know that they have the market cornered ...... I understand that they are in business to make $$ - who isnt?? - that is the name of the game, right? .... and I wont bring ethics into it, as i've learned that there isnt any such thing in the world of business; HOWEVER, there should be limitations ... ... getting back to what the initial post was about - I still see nothing wrong with the paypal 'gift' as long as BOTH parties are in agreement with it -

 

[premium1981]

Yes, those sites are gone, and yes, you could tie it directly to ebay. I know that sportlots, and sportsbuy both offer auction formats. There are others, just google it. They dont seem to get much traffic, and I wouldnt try to move any of my stuff there, but the bottom line is, you do have other options to auction off your cards. You might not use them but they are out there. Again, dismissing the monopoly argument.

You don't work for ebay do you?

 

[clinton]

You don't work for ebay do you?

nope, but I tell ya what. I feel that I owe such a huge part of my PC to that fact that Ebay/Paypal exist that perhaps I take it a bit personal when others choose to knock them.

 

[mindbinge]

yeah without ebay you would never be able to get the things you are able to get...no doubt about it. Think about trying to build a PC if all you had was your local card shop...good luck finding those 1/1's and 1/5's and 1/199 and 1/299 for that matter...you would never be able to get anything low nembered.

of course if no ebay, something else would come along to fill the void...

 

[ragtop12]

yeah without ebay you would never be able to get the things you are able to get...no doubt about it. Think about trying to build a PC if all you had was your local card shop...good luck finding those 1/1's and 1/5's and 1/199 and 1/299 for that matter...you would never be able to get anything low nembered.

of course if no ebay, something else would come along to fill the void...

Im sure something else will come along, and ebay will buy them, or knock them out of business hence retsrating this thread, lol

 

[mindbinge]

prob right

 

[mlbme22]

I don't see a problem with paypal gift- they made it an option, so if people agree to use it when it is in fact not a "gift", then I really don't see why it's an issue. If the persons account gets locked for innapropriate use, then I guess its a risk that person is willing to take.
My 2 cents

 

[cmcjr99]

I don't see a problem with paypal gift- they made it an option, so if people agree to use it when it is in fact not a "gift", then I really don't see why it's an issue. If the persons account gets locked for innapropriate use, then I guess its a risk that person is willing to take.
My 2 cents

because when they made it an option , they inserted a new clause in the TOS :

* 4.2 Receiving Payments for Commercial Transactions and Personal Transactions.

1. Section 4.2 of the user agreement will read as follows:

"4.2 Receiving Payments for Commercial Transactions and Personal Transactions. a. Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial transaction or a personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves buying and selling goods or services, and payments received when you send a "request money” using PayPal. A personal transaction involves sending money to and receiving money from friends and family without making a purchase.

b. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a personal payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept personal payments.”



as for my personal opinion of this topic .....i don't have a line in my sig about it , but i will NOT send a gift/payment owed (or any other type of fee-free) payment when buying and i prefer that those who buy from me don't send my payments that way either....

the fees are NOT outrageous at all.....actually , considering the huge target audience that can be reached via one simple inexpensive ebay listing , their fees are incredibly low and the pay pal fees are quite low as well....it's definitely cheaper for a buyer who now only has to pay for the item plus shipping compared to the old way (item + shipping + a cost of a MO + postage to mail the MO)....

as for clinton's comment about "several sites/options"....i actually thought he was referring to the fact that ebay does allow other payment processors other than pay pal....true , they did eliminate mailed-in payments , but that was to facilitate a (theoretically) 100% e-payment site with several different processors accepted ...

for those unaware , ebay still allows all of these :
PayPal
ProPay
Moneybookers
Paymate
Credit card or debit card processed through the seller's Internet merchant account
Payment upon pickup
Bill Me Later is a valid payment method as well (i'm assuming via one of the above methods)