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Scobes said:
@SymphonicMetal

I had to look this up - why was Gibson so bad on the Cardinals West coast trips? Two reasons - 1) Lack of Run support and 2) Facing High-Quality Pitchers. Here is a breakdown of those 7 games:

4/26 - Dodgers 4, Cardinals 2 - Vs. Sandy Koufax (CG)
5/1 - Giants 2, Cardinals 0 - Vs. Gaylord Perry (CG SHO)
5/6 - Giants 4, Cardinals 2 - Vs. Gaylord Perry (7IP)
6/27 - Giants 2, Cardinals 1 - Vs. Ron Herbel (6.2 Shutout Innings)
7/2 - Dodgers 7, Cardinals 2 - Vs. Claude Osteen
8/18 - Dodgers 3, Cardinals 1 - Vs. Don Drysdale (CG)
9/26 - Dodgers 6, Cardinals 3 - Vs. Claude Osteen

The Cardinals averaged 1.57 runs when Gibson was on the mound against the Dodgers and Giants. Even with Gibson being Gibson, that is hard to overcome. And look at those opponents - Koufax, Perry, and Drysdale. Plus Claude Osteen was a decent pitcher (almost 200 career wins with a 3.30 ERA). The only anamoly is his loss against swingman Ron Herbel (who in all fairness did have a 14-K game in 1964) and that was Gibson's closest game of these 7 - only a 1 run loss. That means Gibson went 21-5 against the rest of the league!

Scobes
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Wow! Great research Scobes! Lack of run support is bad enough but even worse when facing the likes of Koufax, Drysdale, Perry and Osteen. Guess he had to be happy he missed Juan Marichal when playing SF!

The Dodgers were the NL Champs that year and San Fran was 2nd only 1.5 games behind them. San Fran's lineup featured 3 HOFers (Mays, McCovey and Cepeda) and their starting rotation had 2 future HOFers (Perry and Marichal). Talk abouit a loaded team!!
 
SymphonicMetal said:
Wow! Great research Scobes! Lack of run support is bad enough but even worse when facing the likes of Koufax, Drysdale, Perry and Osteen. Guess he had to be happy he missed Juan Marichal when playing SF!

The Dodgers were the NL Champs that year and San Fran was 2nd only 1.5 games behind them. San Fran's lineup featured 3 HOFers (Mays, McCovey and Cepeda) and their starting rotation had 2 future HOFers (Perry and Marichal). Talk abouit a loaded team!!
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Its kinda weird that Gibby faced the Giants twice, in less than a week,both against Perry and missed Marichal. Was that a four game series?
 
Kirbyfan34 said:
Its kinda weird that Gibby faced the Giants twice, in less than a week,both against Perry and missed Marichal. Was that a four game series?
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Good question. I looked it up and the game on 5/1 was the last game of a homestand against St.L. The Giants then hosted a 3 game series against the Dodgers before traveling to St. Louis where the gsme on 5/6 was the first game of that series. So both Perry and Gibson were taking their regul;ar turns in their respective 4 man rotations.

If they had 4 man rotations today would current starting ptchers be on a 50 pitch count or a 3 inning limit?
 
SymphonicMetal said:
Good question. I looked it up and the game on 5/1 was the last game of a homestand against St.L. The Giants then hosted a 3 game series against the Dodgers before traveling to St. Louis where the gsme on 5/6 was the first game of that series. So both Perry and Gibson were taking their regul;ar turns in their respective 4 man rotations.

If they had 4 man rotations today would current starting ptchers be on a 50 pitch count or a 3 inning limit?
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Probably 2/3 of an inning for some of these guys. I remember one Brewers game i worked and the opposing pitcher had nearly 60 pitches in the 3rd inning. It's just insanity.

On a side note I stopped at several area card shops tonight after work and was blown away at a couple things.

Packs of 2025 series one (not hangers or fat packs) 11.95
1961 Topps Fran Tarkenton RC Auto'd and graded 200.00 (to be fair it was probably about a good condition card w/o the auto, but a HOF RC)
1982 Topps Traded Cal Ripken Jr #98 Graded PSA 8 $280 (one of 19 1980's topps cards i need)
1991 35th Anniversary Kevin McGonigle Auto'd unnumbered 250 bucks.

Now I know which two I would pick but the prices were way out of whack to me...
 
Kirbyfan34 said:
Probably 2/3 of an inning for some of these guys. I remember one Brewers game i worked and the opposing pitcher had nearly 60 pitches in the 3rd inning. It's just insanity.

On a side note I stopped at several area card shops tonight after work and was blown away at a couple things.

Packs of 2025 series one (not hangers or fat packs) 11.95
1961 Topps Fran Tarkenton RC Auto'd and graded 200.00 (to be fair it was probably about a good condition card w/o the auto, but a HOF RC)
1982 Topps Traded Cal Ripken Jr #98 Graded PSA 8 $280 (one of 19 1980's topps cards i need)
1991 35th Anniversary Kevin McGonigle Auto'd unnumbered 250 bucks.

Now I know which two I would pick but the prices were way out of whack to me...
Click to expand...


I think the PSA 8 Ripken Traded is about right from looking at EBAY.

I had to look up who Kevin McGonigle was. He appears to be a nice prospect but I don't see anything that wows me with his stats. He is young (about to turn 22) but is pretty small so being a big time power hitter is iffy. A nice prospect but no one is ever going to confuse him with elite prospects like Griffey Jr., ARod or IRod. 250 for his auto is laughable and is insane speculation I can buy actual HOF certified autos all day long for $20 so why would I buy a prospect's auto for $250. "Fools and their money". Think 4 figure Jasssssson Dominguez autos.
 
SymphonicMetal said:
I think the PSA 8 Ripken Traded is about right from looking at EBAY.

I had to look up who Kevin McGonigle was. He appears to be a nice prospect but I don't see anything that wows me with his stats. He is young (about to turn 22) but is pretty small so being a big time power hitter is iffy. A nice prospect but no one is ever going to confuse him with elite prospects like Griffey Jr., ARod or IRod. 250 for his auto is laughable and is insane speculation I can buy actual HOF certified autos all day long for $20 so why would I buy a prospect's auto for $250. "Fools and their money". Think 4 figure Jasssssson Dominguez autos.
Click to expand...
I know the Ripken was about right, but the prospect auto and the pack price were ridiculous
 
Kirbyfan34 said:
I know the Ripken was about right, but the prospect auto and the pack price were ridiculous
Click to expand...
You'll appreciate this comparison. As you know the Ripken Traded card is hard to come by unless you are willing to pay big. For some reason when my buddy owned our LCS here he must have picked up 10 of those from the same source in the course of a year. He already had a buyer for any he could get so I never got one from him. I saw a ton of really nice cards come in that store like Topps and OPC Gretzky RCs, , vintage Mantles, Clementes, Mays, Koufaxs and those Ripken Tradeds. You know what I never saw? 1984 Fleer Update Pucketts or Clemens RCs. As a matter of fact since I bought my Update sets in 1984 I have not gotten a single Clemens and only 1 Puckett which I got in the late 80s.early 90s when I used to set up in Cooperstown on Induction Weekend. Like hen's teeth those two cards are!
 
SymphonicMetal said:
You'll appreciate this comparison. As you know the Ripken Traded card is hard to come by unless you are willing to pay big. For some reason when my buddy owned our LCS here he must have picked up 10 of those from the same source in the course of a year. He already had a buyer for any he could get so I never got one from him. I saw a ton of really nice cards come in that store like Topps and OPC Gretzky RCs, , vintage Mantles, Clementes, Mays, Koufaxs and those Ripken Tradeds. You know what I never saw? 1984 Fleer Update Pucketts or Clemens RCs. As a matter of fact since I bought my Update sets in 1984 I have not gotten a single Clemens and only 1 Puckett which I got in the late 80s.early 90s when I used to set up in Cooperstown on Induction Weekend. Like hen's teeth those two cards are!
Click to expand...

You need to stop down here in PA. Literally at my LCS Wednesday night after dropping the kid off at baseball practice. In their showcases - a 1984 Puckett Fleer Update. Haven't seen a Clemens Update, but they have had a pretty consistent stream of 1985 Topps Clemens RCs.
 
SymphonicMetal said:
You'll appreciate this comparison. As you know the Ripken Traded card is hard to come by unless you are willing to pay big. For some reason when my buddy owned our LCS here he must have picked up 10 of those from the same source in the course of a year. He already had a buyer for any he could get so I never got one from him. I saw a ton of really nice cards come in that store like Topps and OPC Gretzky RCs, , vintage Mantles, Clementes, Mays, Koufaxs and those Ripken Tradeds. You know what I never saw? 1984 Fleer Update Pucketts or Clemens RCs. As a matter of fact since I bought my Update sets in 1984 I have not gotten a single Clemens and only 1 Puckett which I got in the late 80s.early 90s when I used to set up in Cooperstown on Induction Weekend. Like hen's teeth those two cards are!
Click to expand...
Yeah, i have a shop im going to stop at today in between jobs, where i got my Puckett from, and stare longingly at the 2 full 82 topps traded sets with the Ripken showing.... bought a set without one, but don't really want to buy a whole set just for cal....
 
katester44 said:
You need to stop down here in PA. Literally at my LCS Wednesday night after dropping the kid off at baseball practice. In their showcases - a 1984 Puckett Fleer Update. Haven't seen a Clemens Update, but they have had a pretty consistent stream of 1985 Topps Clemens RCs.
Click to expand...
Ive still only seen the Puckett in person 2 tines before getting it a year and a half ago. Still haven't seen a Clemens or Gooden. Ot Rose for that matter.
 
SymphonicMetal said:
I think the PSA 8 Ripken Traded is about right from looking at EBAY.

I had to look up who Kevin McGonigle was. He appears to be a nice prospect but I don't see anything that wows me with his stats. He is young (about to turn 22) but is pretty small so being a big time power hitter is iffy. A nice prospect but no one is ever going to confuse him with elite prospects like Griffey Jr., ARod or IRod. 250 for his auto is laughable and is insane speculation I can buy actual HOF certified autos all day long for $20 so why would I buy a prospect's auto for $250. "Fools and their money". Think 4 figure Jasssssson Dominguez autos.
Click to expand...
Kevin McGonigle is an all-star. played in the game a couple days ago.
 
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